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Post subject: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:20 am
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:58 am
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Location: Colorado
I recently acquired an iMac, an audio interface, and a condenser microphone is on the way, so... I can finally start recording!

I'll be using Logic X Pro for the DAW. I was wondering what experience has taught you all about how you record electric guitar. Does running the Mustang into the computer sound better than Logic Plugins? Or maybe mic'd? How about compared to third-party plugins, i.e. Amplitude?

I am completely new to this world, and any advice that you have is welcome.

Thank you so much,

Andrew


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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:47 pm
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Location: Tucson
I'm a complete noob in this too, but the thing that is keeping me using my Mustang for basic sound over plugins is that I get to hear it coming our of the amp while I'm playing. I use Reaper, but still, if you're relying on plugins, you either have to listen through headphones or through your monitor speakers (whatever is coming out of your computer). Personally, my house is really too loud to use condenser mics... but that's my problem. The line out gives pretty good sound IMO.

Best!

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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:19 pm
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Biggest problem you're bound to run into is latency (the delay you will hear when monitoring through the computer. I have heard that the latency tends to run on the high side with Logic Pro, however I haven't used it. Right now I use Mixcraft Pro and with my setup (nothing special) have gotten the delay down to about 10ms, anything greater they 20ms or so will be unacceptable. Your Mac probably has a good sound card, so I suggest setting your Logic Pro sound device preferences to Core Audio Exclusive Mode with High Priority Threading for the Audio Engine (if it has it).

IMHO once the latency issue is worked out you will probably use all the other options you have, device and plug-in wise. I' sure you will find helpful information on reducing the delay on your particular setup in the Logic Pro manual or on line. Have fun....


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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:30 am
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Location: Here In Oregon
Geez, I am a gotta be under < -2 ms guy. Just saying! <g>

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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:29 pm
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HIO wrote:
Geez, I am a gotta be under < -2 ms guy. Just saying! <g>


I don't know how to be under 0ms actual latency (pleas let me know). Is the number you're quoting (-2) the latency correction? In my understanding if you had a latency of 2 ms and your software was set to(or automatically) removing 2, your net latency would be 0 ( I can't think of a way to record it before playing it) . I know recording program can correct for almost any amount of delay it just moves the new track back to the start point of the other.( fine for anything but overdub)
However, for me while monitoring through my computer and playing over a previous track I will hear a delay if my latency is over say, 10ms ( this being the latency is caused by the time it takes for the signal from your guitar to be processed through your cords, sound card, recording software and added to the existing file.
In my understanding it comes down to a few factors , how fast is your processor,sound card, software and physics. In my case I don't have a hyper fast computer or card, so all I can do is software related. With a free app like Audacity the best I could get would be in the 40ms range, I couldn't use it to overdub. With a mid level program like Mixcraft-pro 7( about $170), and my average Realtek card and computer (ssd drive) my actual delay is well under 10ms, not great but useable.

I see you're a recording engineer with a very good system, what is your actual latency(system loop test wise), I would like to know what a real recording studio system has?

Please correct me if you find any of this info incorrect because I'm surely no audio engineer, I picked this up fighting the delay problem for several months.


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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:19 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:43 pm
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Location: Here In Oregon
Eroot64 wrote:
HIO wrote:
Geez, I am a gotta be under < -2 ms guy. Just saying! <g>


I don't know how to be under 0ms actual latency (pleas let me know). Is the number you're quoting (-2) the latency correction? In my understanding if you had a latency of 2 ms and your software was set to(or automatically) removing 2, your net latency would be 0 ( I can't think of a way to record it before playing it) . I know recording program can correct for almost any amount of delay it just moves the new track back to the start point of the other.( fine for anything but overdub)
However, for me while monitoring through my computer and playing over a previous track I will hear a delay if my latency is over say, 10ms ( this being the latency is caused by the time it takes for the signal from your guitar to be processed through your cords, sound card, recording software and added to the existing file.
In my understanding it comes down to a few factors , how fast is your processor,sound card, software and physics. In my case I don't have a hyper fast computer or card, so all I can do is software related. With a free app like Audacity the best I could get would be in the 40ms range, I couldn't use it to overdub. With a mid level program like Mixcraft-pro 7( about $170), and my average Realtek card and computer (ssd drive) my actual delay is well under 10ms, not great but useable.

I see you're a recording engineer with a very good system, what is your actual latency(system loop test wise), I would like to know what a real recording studio system has?

Please correct me if you find any of this info incorrect because I'm surely no audio engineer, I picked this up fighting the delay problem for several months.

Sorry Eroot64, I meant under 2ms. Sorry, my bad. I build really fast computers and latency is something that I never could tolerate so it is kind of a pet peave for me. Round trip though I have not tested in a while. I notice no latency and I track with a UAD Quad with a bunch of plugs running in real time. Of course this effects card has four sharc processors on board which helps. <g>

Also, you might download Reaper which has a free trial and see if it helps. IMHO it has the best audio engine in the business hands down.

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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:36 pm
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I have the latency issue worked out thankfully, I'm down between 5-8 . I've heard good things about reaper I think the OP would benefit from it. My PC is about 2 years old, back then it was a hotrod , compared to some I have put together lately (for other people) mine is not quite as fast.

In my case I have the engine tuned as fast as it will go i.e priority threading and exclusive mode(software notwithstanding ) To get down as low as yours I will need a faster sound card and processor (at least). For the moment I'm satisfied with the latency of my system. I don't now the threshold for perceiving delay but I assume its about 20 ms. Next upgrade is fairly soon,I always want better, faster, state of the art tech but have to balance cost into the equation. I set up my gear for video/photo so it jives well for audio(for now at least)


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Post subject: Re: 'Stang or Plugins?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:40 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:43 pm
Posts: 532
Location: Here In Oregon
Eroot64 wrote:
I have the latency issue worked out thankfully, I'm down between 5-8 . I've heard good things about reaper I think the OP would benefit from it. My PC is about 2 years old, back then it was a hotrod , compared to some I have put together lately (for other people) mine is not quite as fast.

In my case I have the engine tuned as fast as it will go i.e priority threading and exclusive mode(software notwithstanding ) To get down as low as yours I will need a faster sound card and processor (at least). For the moment I'm satisfied with the latency of my system. I don't now the threshold for perceiving delay but I assume its about 20 ms. Next upgrade is fairly soon,I always want better, faster, state of the art tech but have to balance cost into the equation. I set up my gear for video/photo so it jives well for audio(for now at least)

For the record and no pun intended I have been using an RME 9652 for years.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/techinfo_con ... 2_info.php

Also, on another DAW an RME 9632 for years. Both helping to lower the latency as part of the equation you were alluding to.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/techinfo_con ... 2_info.php

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