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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:37 am
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The minute we make an amp that solely relies on mobile apps (rather than having the option of hands on the amp itself) we are doomed.

I don't go through computers that often, but, cellphones are another story as I have a drawer full of them. Windows, Android, and iOS is in my home, and I have no allegiance to any, other than I find advantages and disadvantages to each, and I certainly do not expect to see the OSs hang around in their present configuration. I chose not to buy a great mixer that integrates an iPad for extra control, simply because my budget and age does not warrant my joining professional studios with constant upgrades, nor does it put me in the same camp as some others where it is more suitable. I went with a mixer that has stood and will stand the test of time without an OS dictating my usage. (Still, it would have been nice rather than practical in my case.)

The entertainment industry has dedicated computers and few professionals (if any) would think to use their audio/video computer for anything but the task at hand. One's choice of OS is certainly fine for direct to DAW as options will always be available at both the software and hardware end. (I have an old PC with an old OS with a great audio card and midi program to complement my current setup). Nice to have, but losing it would be a short term pita. Losing function of my modelling amp would not be short term or desirable.

As for Fuse, and similar amp/preset editors, maybe an amp supplier's dedicated and related tablet (not cellphone) would be one alternative. This is similar to the like/dislike Apple business/tech model said to just work (except, when it doesn't). :?

Perhaps, the connection to go between the amp and computer could include a separate modular unit that could be changed and matched to one's OS. This way the amp could be even more independent and still even more useful if the Fuse and related requirements are omitted or changed, or if future considerations and development occurs. Audiophile equipment has had similar features in the past.

The problem we are left with is the Internet . . . but, science and developers have their ways.

That being said, even the Internet, as we know it, is under threat and scrutiny where a change may come sooner than expected. Probably not in my lifetime and maybe not in yours. Never say never. :shock:

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Last edited by Fender Strat Brat on Sun May 31, 2015 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:44 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
bjje wrote:
Everything I said was for Fender, not the five of us that linger here.
Bye.

bjje, FWIW, you have a whopping 10 posts on this forum. All in this thread. And as far as I can tell, you've only made one request in those 10 posts. Your first post was May 18 and the most recent was May 30th. In the course of those 12 days, you've asked for the same thing over and over and then declared that nobody was listening and you're taking your money elsewhere.

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No, that's not correct. I'm learning FUSE and Mustang fast, still trying to get PLUG working with v2 and eagerly awaiting what Fender is going to do like the rest of you. I hope it's big.
Nobody accepts a noob, I understand that, but I stand by my suggestions. I know I got pulled into yakking about it too much, couldn't resist plugging my ecosystem and I have already said I'm sorry. I defer to your experience but there is a lot of dissatifaction expressed on this thread.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:24 pm
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bjje wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
bjje wrote:
Everything I said was for Fender, not the five of us that linger here.
Bye.

bjje, FWIW, you have a whopping 10 posts on this forum. All in this thread. And as far as I can tell, you've only made one request in those 10 posts. Your first post was May 18 and the most recent was May 30th. In the course of those 12 days, you've asked for the same thing over and over and then declared that nobody was listening and you're taking your money elsewhere.

Image


No, that's not correct. I'm learning FUSE and Mustang fast, still trying to get PLUG working with v2 and eagerly awaiting what Fender is going to do like the rest of you. I hope it's big.
Nobody accepts a noob, I understand that, but I stand by my suggestions. I know I got pulled into yakking about it too much, couldn't resist plugging my ecosystem and I have already said I'm sorry. I defer to your experience but there is a lot of dissatifaction expressed on this thread.


bjje:

You're right: "there is a lot of dissatisfaction expressed on this thread." But there's good reason for that—and for the continuing frustration with Fender on the part of many here (including myself).
Fender opened this thread in July 2012, asking for us to share or "thoughts, ideas and feature requests for Fender FUSE." Many of us have shared our thoughts, idea and requests but with no response other than occasional "Thanks, we're listening."
Many of us would like to see something more than that. We'd like to see Fender DO SOMETHING in response to our thoughts, ideas and requests. But whenever we mention that here, Fender just sends the usual "we're working on it but we can't share any information with you."
We're tired of that. We want to see something happen.
So, yes..."there is a lot of dissatisfaction expressed on this thread."

grritz


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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:17 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
The minute we make an amp that solely relies on mobile apps (rather than having the option of hands on the amp itself) we are doomed.

Agreed. But I can't imagine Fender taking things that far. A little traditionalism is a good thing in that respect.

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As for Fuse, and similar amp/preset editors, maybe an amp supplier's dedicated and related tablet (not cellphone) would be one alternative.

God, no. Please no. Based on their track record with choosing Silverlight as their first platform, they'd probably bring out a Tizen based tablet or something equally crap.

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Perhaps, the connection to go between the amp and computer could include a separate modular unit that could be changed and matched to one's OS.

No, the connection should be Bluetooth, but they should release a SDK to go with it, so other people can build their own FUSE software and port it to other platforms.

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That being said, even the Internet, as we know it, is under threat and scrutiny where a change may come sooner than expected. Probably not in my lifetime and maybe not in yours. Never say never. :shock:

Nah. It's gonna be this or Skynet.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:56 am
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grritz wrote:
Fender opened this thread in July 2012, asking for us to share or "thoughts, ideas and feature requests for Fender FUSE."
grritz

Actually, Fender consolidated this thread with a couple of others that had previously started more than a year before that. They made it "official" in 2012. For those of you keeping score at home, check off the box that says "Current wait time: 4.5 years"

Just for kicks, I dug up the thread that was running before Fender took it over. Here's a screen grab showing part of the first post of the community consolidation thread; this was in April 2011. (Doesn't really matter, but hey, what the heck...)

Jeff

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:36 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Perhaps, the connection to go between the amp and computer could include a separate modular unit that could be changed and matched to one's OS.

ChrisH1 wrote:
No, the connection should be Bluetooth, but they should release a SDK to go with it, so other people can build their own FUSE software and port it to other platforms.


Good points, ChrisH1. Personal preference on some, for sure. I'm somewhat computer savvy, better than many, but not as good as others. From a marketing value, I'm not convinced that being able to make your own Fuse (other than customization of a delivered product) would be beneficial to the masses. This would, IMHO, be best added to a boutique (or higher end Fender) amp, similar to comparing consumer and pro electronics - which sometimes finds both dumbed down quality and/or advanced features for specific applications. There is the chance, however, that the software could meet both your request and plain Jane versions, similar to what we have now, with upgraded features. I don't think the added cost in R&D should hit everyone in the pocket book, though. Maybe, the amp could come in two flavours :D

As for Bluetooth, for all its good features, it has faults such as USB 3.0 ports, cables, and devices running into noise and throughput interference as they are on the same operating band. Corrected shielding may reduce or eliminate this problem; but, because a lot of recording and playback gear (including, but not limited to, guitar pedals) have USB, there is no assurance for standardized interference free Bluetooth operation in this arena. This doesn't appear to be a good live performance, studio, or home solution IMHO.

Hey! Nothing's perfect though. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:01 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
From a marketing value, I'm not convinced that being able to make your own Fuse (other than customization of a delivered product) would be beneficial to the masses.

Put it this way: If the protocol was open and/or there was an SDK, I would have done a FUSE Android app by now, and I probably would have been the 101st person to do it.
Without it, I'm not even gonna start.

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I don't think the added cost in R&D should hit everyone in the pocket book, though.

What additional cost? They must already have the specs since they invented the protocol. It's just a matter of releasing them.

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As for Bluetooth, for all its good features, it has faults such as USB 3.0 ports, cables, and devices running into noise and throughput interference as they are on the same operating band. Corrected shielding may reduce or eliminate this problem; but, because a lot of recording and playback gear (including, but not limited to, guitar pedals) have USB, there is no assurance for standardized interference free Bluetooth operation in this arena. This doesn't appear to be a good live performance, studio, or home solution IMHO.

I wasn't suggesting to transmit audio over it - the current FUSE software doesn't do that either. Just the control interface.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:35 pm
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ChrisH1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
From a marketing value, I'm not convinced that being able to make your own Fuse (other than customization of a delivered product) would be beneficial to the masses.

Put it this way: If the protocol was open and/or there was an SDK, I would have done a FUSE Android app by now, and I probably would have been the 101st person to do it.
Without it, I'm not even gonna start.

Point taken. Only recently, however, has Android been able to address latency issues, so whether that comes into play or not here, it would be relative somewhere down the road, if only by association. This certainly was true early on. That's the beauty of digital, too. Standards and approaches to solving issues are all over the map. It is true that audio apps missing from Android are slowly appearing. It is also true that companies like Samsung and Google attack latency differently and because Android is in its infancy in many ways, Fender is not alone in addressing Android owners respectively. (I too use Android, and this is why I'm tuned in to the dilemma that I discovered after jumping on board some time ago.) With companies brave enough to make the leap to Android they deserve applause. But, for the others, it would be prudent to look at the total package and its direction (not just data). Android is a great OS, but has its weaknesses like other OSs. Audio is one of them - for now.

Quote:
I don't think the added cost in R&D should hit everyone in the pocket book, though.

What additional cost? They must already have the specs since they invented the protocol. It's just a matter of releasing them.

You're probably correct. But, I wouldn't think Fender would want to freely give release of that information or open it up to lose control with Fender marketing and or other concerns. Bonus if they do.

Quote:
As for Bluetooth, for all its good features, it has faults such as USB 3.0 ports, cables, and devices running into noise and throughput interference as they are on the same operating band. Corrected shielding may reduce or eliminate this problem; but, because a lot of recording and playback gear (including, but not limited to, guitar pedals) have USB, there is no assurance for standardized interference free Bluetooth operation in this arena. This doesn't appear to be a good live performance, studio, or home solution IMHO.

I wasn't suggesting to transmit audio over it - the current FUSE software doesn't do that either. Just the control interface.
Transmitting audio is one thing, but there are volumes of information on Bluetooth data transmission and security concerns, amongst other related issues. Suffice to say, good when it works, but . . .

There's a lot to be said about the KISS principle.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:24 pm
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A lot of very god points here. I bet if they just put together a simple app like Plug that just has settings and not graphical representations it would very easy to develop, release, and support. I mean do we need pretty pictures of amps and pedals? I for one have. Had zero issues. But I also work on broadcast tech support so have access to both Mac and PC platforms and also pretty savvy with troubleshooting both. Have not needed to but I can understand the frustrations.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:20 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Only recently, however, has Android been able to address latency issues, so whether that comes into play or not here, it would be relative somewhere down the road, if only by association.

Again, I don't want the app to do audio, only to control the Mustang's settings. A few milliseconds of latency would not matter there.

Quote:
You're probably correct. But, I wouldn't think Fender would want to freely give release of that information or open it up to lose control with Fender marketing and or other concerns. Bonus if they do.

I am sure you are on the money there - but objectively Fender wouldn't really lose anything. You'd still have to buy a Fender amp - if I then use the software supplied with it or a 3rd party app would have no influence on their bottom line.

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Transmitting audio is one thing, but there are volumes of information on Bluetooth data transmission and security concerns, amongst other related issues.

Sorry, you lost me there. What security concerns? If someone wants to maliciously switch my amp's preset to something else, all he has to do is walk up to my amp and do it. No need to hack my Bluetooth connection.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:41 pm
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ChrisH1 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Only recently, however, has Android been able to address latency issues, so whether that comes into play or not here, it would be relative somewhere down the road, if only by association.

Again, I don't want the app to do audio, only to control the Mustang's settings. A few milliseconds of latency would not matter there.

Heya, Chris. I'm just saying, even though one may just want settings control, with Android falling short (for the present) on the audio side, it certainly doesn't help to sway companies to jump on the bandwagon half heartedly. As I mentioned, Android has made great strides to address this latency; but, it hasn't been completed as a mature or standardized feature. Until that happens, I wouldn't expect full support even with the data. Even the older brother Windows doesn't have that in the music industry,

Quote:
You're probably correct. But, I wouldn't think Fender would want to freely give release of that information or open it up to lose control with Fender marketing and or other concerns. Bonus if they do.

I am sure you are on the money there - but objectively Fender wouldn't really lose anything. You'd still have to buy a Fender amp - if I then use the software supplied with it or a 3rd party app would have no influence on their bottom line.

Point taken. I also would love to see wireless control of the amp including the wireless use of AmpliTube and other programs. Integrated wireless recording and playback control using a flash drive, well, that's another story. :idea:

Quote:
Transmitting audio is one thing, but there are volumes of information on Bluetooth data transmission and security concerns, amongst other related issues.

Sorry, you lost me there. What security concerns? If someone wants to maliciously switch my amp's preset to something else, all he has to do is walk up to my amp and do it. No need to hack my Bluetooth connection.

I get you here too. I do agree, Chris, that security is limited in this application, still USB 3.0 related electronic noise (not the same as audio) is still a concern.


In the end we will have either a stronger Bluetooth, a better USB, both, or something to replace them. For now, even with their weaknesses, they are the best we have. Phew! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Onwards, to futility!
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:19 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I was responding to that with 2 options for running Fender FUSE™ Software on Linux: (1) Using a virtual operating system installation inside Linux (2) Dual boot.


Neither is running in Linux; you still need to do a full Windows purchase and installation and run the software in Windows.

There is PLUG, but it is limited in what you can do, and may not be legal to use in some jurisdictions due to being based on reverse engineering, given that FUSE doesn't have a published API.
But I still had better success with hooking up the Mustang to PLUG than I did with FUSE, mainly due to FUSE not supporting high-DPI displays (you cannot turn off display scaling for a single Silverlight app).

At this point, FUSE is abandonware; no matter what Fender stated their intentions were, they haven't followed up on them. FUSE is the same today as it was several years ago, while the PCs aren't. And the Mustang amps themselves have started to become discontinued.


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Post subject: Re: Onwards, to futility!
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:42 am
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arth1 wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
I was responding to that with 2 options for running Fender FUSE™ Software on Linux: (1) Using a virtual operating system installation inside Linux (2) Dual boot.


Neither is running in Linux; you still need to do a full Windows purchase and installation and run the software in Windows.

There is PLUG, but it is limited in what you can do, and may not be legal to use in some jurisdictions due to being based on reverse engineering, given that FUSE doesn't have a published API.
But I still had better success with hooking up the Mustang to PLUG than I did with FUSE, mainly due to FUSE not supporting high-DPI displays (you cannot turn off display scaling for a single Silverlight app).

At this point, FUSE is abandonware; no matter what Fender stated their intentions were, they haven't followed up on them. FUSE is the same today as it was several years ago, while the PCs aren't. And the Mustang amps themselves have started to become discontinued.


Which Mustang amps "have started to become discontinued"? How do you know that? I'm not saying it's not true...this is just the first I've heard of it and I'd like to know what your sources are so I can look it up.


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Post subject: Re: Onwards, to futility!
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:59 am
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grritz wrote:
Which Mustang amps "have started to become discontinued"?

The Floor. Which is technically not an amp, but definitely a FUSE-enabled product.


Last edited by ChrisH1 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Would Like Your Feedback...
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:00 am
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Would like a way to adjust and save the XLR output levels in individual patches so when switching between patches the output levels are equal. In a live situation the XLR outputs are not that usable due to one patch being louder than the other when using different amp/speaker configurations.


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