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Post subject: Looking for Practice Help
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:33 pm
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i am interested in getting something that would allow me to make more effective use of my practice at home - particularly in the areas of playing in a structured rythm and learning what notes can be played along with what chords, keys, changes, etc.

obviously, the DEC series has me intrigued.

my question (and it is truly not intended to be a crtical one) is if i am not interested in the effects aspect and my sole desire is to be able to essentially play along with tracks that have different keys/chords and no guitar parts on them, am i just as well off to get backing tracks for my ipod and just hook that up to a speaker and play my current amp setup along with it??

i am truly an idiot when it comes to backing tracks (their availability and format) but assume there must be some useable on an ipod?

what would i miss (other than the effects by going this route, instead of the DEC? are the backing tracks on the DEC's somehow better than what else is available?

thanks - i really would like to take the next step in my playing abilities and i think playing with rythm and backing tracks is probably the best thing i could do.


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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:20 pm
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ufboy73
The short answer to your question is you can change the key of the backing tracks as well as the beats per minute. For that matter you can also play your i pod through the amp and match the guitar and program volumes to each other. It is a pretty neat all-in-one device.

Hope this helps,
John.E


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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:42 pm
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ufboy73
I have a GDec 30 and I'll tell you what, I got bored with the MIDI backing tracks on the 30 pretty fast. Almost every tone is drowned in effects that you have to fumble through tons of menus and parameters to turn off. But, you can save a fairly clean tone. I plug my MP3 or laptop into it and use live backing tracks. That said, the GDec is a good practice tool. It can help you develop timing and other skills. You may want to take a look at the Spider jam, it uses live tracks and can also record whole songs.


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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:13 pm
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Roadie
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hey thanks guys.

i guess i am still wondering, as far as strictly a learning to play tool...what is it about the G-DEC that would make it a more effective learning device than playing along to an ipod? Matching the volume levels is probably something that could be done without G-DEC but I can see how it would be nice to be able to do that quickly and easily within one unit.

what else about the G-DEC makes it a more effective option? because to be honest, the overprocessed tones is something i could see make me NOT want to practice as much...put in other words, if i plugged into a true amp that delivered a great tone - and somehow got my backing tracks from elsewhere (IPOD or whatever) - i would probably play more than thru a device that sounded artificial....but would i be losing out on any 'learning' opportunities?

thanks again guys!


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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:21 pm
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The only things I can see is changing the key and tempo. It also has a 28 second phrase sampler that can be slowed down and it also overdubs. But like I said, I hate all the over processed tones.


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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:32 pm
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63supro wrote:
The only things I can see is changing the key and tempo. It also has a 28 second phrase sampler that can be slowed down and it also overdubs. But like I said, I hate all the over processed tones.


hey supro,

yes, flexibility on both of those would be good. most of the backing tracks i have seen (at least in my preliminary look on Itunes) are available in a wide rnage of keys...there are a variety of tempos available but im sure not on par with what could be done on the G-DEC.

i wonder if my best option is try backing tracks with my Ipod (w/speaker) and play along with my amp....im just loathe to give up my tweed tone as i just love playing that thing, even on its own.

What i am completely ignorant on is the availability of backing tracks - and this is something i could see the G-DEC having an advantage on (i.e. a library already consolidated and available at a touch). but to your prior post, it sounds like even if i did get the DEC i would need to probably supplement from some other source anyway so that is probably a wash?

EDIT: I should add, however, that if there really is something in the DEC that would further accelerate or enhance my learning progression i would seriously consider getting it, despite non-optimal tone. i just am not sure what the marginal learning benefit would truly be


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:16 pm
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ufboy73
Do you have an actual Tweed circuit like a Deluxe 5e3 or 57 Champ, or Twin or is it a Tweed covered amp like the Blues Jr? I usually associate Tweed tone with a 5e3, just because if its amazing dynamics. The GDec has Tweed amp models, but they're not exactly great as you can imagine.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:36 pm
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Roadie
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63supro wrote:
ufboy73
Do you have an actual Tweed circuit like a Deluxe 5e3 or 57 Champ, or Twin or is it a Tweed covered amp like the Blues Jr? I usually associate Tweed tone with a 5e3, just because if its amazing dynamics. The GDec has Tweed amp models, but they're not exactly great as you can imagine.


supro,

actually, i have a '57 twin reissue. you probably dont recall, but you were helping me navigate some amp buying issues a while ago. i was trying to get some 'vintage' tone but for use at home. i fully recognize my ultimate choice is overkill for home but i dont care!:) the damn thing sounded so good (even on low volume settings) i loved it. it retained a lot of its dynamics even with the volume 2-3. when i get the house to myself i am able to get it up to 4-5....it is a loud amp! when i need a little more drive i put an OCD in front which is fairly transparent. I actually think i may take the amp in just to check the bias (and potentially nudge it up a bit). the thing that amazes me about the amp is how 'organic' it sounds even clean at low volumes...its hard for me to describe but its like...pure/direct sound from my guitar, with no interrruption (if that makes sense).

i demoed it side by side with your recommendation - '57 deluxe. i agonized over that choice for a while, as i really liked both. there was a little extra something that i liked about the twin - i think it was probably just the fact that two speakers 'felt' more expansive...of course, the choice was made easier thinking i would probably end up with the deluxe down the road anyway:)

anyway, going from my twin to an overprocessed DEC has me concerned that i will just always want to play my twin, bypassing the learning benefits of the DEC. thats why i am wondering if it might be best to try playing along to some Ipod backing tracks along with my twin.

i must admit, the '57 champ now tempts me from time to time now. i rationally realize it is ridiculously priced but....

actually, while i have your attention here i was wondering if you might share some of your thoughts on another amp matter. i have been really into the 70's clapton tones lately (Live from the 70's, Just One Night, Live at the Filmore, etc.), which are distinctly different than the current tweed-based tones he gets now. I think he used Music Man and Marshall amps back then - its is a 'cleaner' sound than the tweeds (or at least a little less 'hair' around each note). there is better seperation and it seems like more of a twangy sound to it, though it still has some 'edge/bite' and breakup to it. IF you are familiar with the tones i am referencing, is there anything in the fender line-up that might be a good match for this...i love the twin and will always keep it but wondering if something might achieve those 70 tones a bit better....i have no experience with the blackface models, is that where i need to go? or do i need to leave fender and try out some marhsalls for the first time?

any thoughts (from you and/or others (doc:))) would be most welcome!!


Last edited by ufboy73 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:44 pm
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I agree with most of the responses here. However, I believe that the ability to change to any key or any tempo at a moment's notice is being under emphasized.

Sure, you can find backing tracks for your iPod. But how many would you need to cover 84 drum/bass patterns at all tempos in all keys? Talk about fumbling through menus. Plus, who wants to be dragging around another piece of electronics to practice guitar?

The ability to change keys and tempos is a very cool feature of G-DECs.

The effects and modeling are gravy. They provide countless ways to get another sound. Don't like the effects? Then just turn them off and save your preferred settings as a preset. It will be there every time you want it.

I recently upgraded my boy's G-DEC. He wanted more power. We looked at just about everything. We looked at the Spider Jam. The backing tracks are recordings of real instruments. They sound good but they only come in one key. We would have liked the extra power but we didn't want to give up all the G-DEC features. So, we went with the G-DEC 30.

The other under appreciated feature of the G-DEC is the built-in guitar tuner. These are the best tuners I've seen. If you've ever fiddled with a temperamental guitar tuner, you know what a pain that can be. And a lot of guitar tuners are temperamental -- even some very popular models. These G-DEC tuners are sweet. Dialing right in on frequency couldn't be easier.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:31 am
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ufboy73
First, Congrats on the Twin. If you're going for overkill, that's the way to do it. I'm glad I could give you something to think about with your decision.

As far as the GDec goes, as long as you go in with a mind set that it is what it is, you'll be fine. It's a practice tool, no more, no less. You'll never get the sweet tones out of it that you hear with the Tweed Twin.

Instead of a 57 Champ, maybe you should try building a Tweed Clone kit. It's a pretty simple build. I believe Marsh has a kit that I might try that you can build with a 10" speaker cabinet. :wink:


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:27 am
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ufboy73
Take a look at mygdec.com. Go to the file repository and look at the spread sheet there. You will find 300 or more tone settings that can be entered into the programable side of the GDec 30s memory.
These are amp and musician emulations that will allow you to play Vox, Marshall,Crate,Orange and Fender amp tones as clean as you desire.
My current start-up amp is a Pre-CBS Blues Jr. clean. The trick(?) is to keep the amp setting constant and move through the backing tracks, changing the key and tempo as mood and motive dictate.
Put these settings into a GDec30 and tell me what you think.
Amp. Tweed1
Gain 6.7
Vol. 7.0
Bass 4.2
Middle 3.2
Treb. 8.5
Comp. Low
Timbre Full Body
Noise Gate Low
Go though the F/X menu and set all values to zero.
Keep in mind that if you want to add reverb, tape echo or another effect for a particular song, it's there waiting to be applied, no pedal board required.

Happy hunting,
John.E


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:08 pm
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mygdec.com is a great site for GDec users. I suggest it a lot on the GDec section.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:16 am
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Roadie
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ok guys,

as you have probably seen in another thread of mine i am still looking for another amp (for playing and not just practicing) that offers a different tonal variation than my twin.....BUT i think you've convinced me to try one of the DEC's as a practice device/tool.

my next question - there seem to be several models available (at least on guitar center's site):

- G-DEC Junior ($149)
- G-DEC ($219)
- G-DEC 30 ($299)

I dont really need the extra wattage (unless it has some impact on the realism of the tracks or guitar) since it is just a practice tool so are there functional differences you think should be considered as i make the final decision?

I just want the best practice tool, in the most compact/portable sized unit, out of the 3?

thanks again for all the help!!


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:40 am
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I upgraded to the 30. It sounds much better than the other two and the 28 sec looper comes in real handy. I am expecting the footswitch today and that should make switching things on and off a lot more convenient.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:41 am
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so, easily worth the upcharge in your mind?

am i assuming that 30 watt SS isnt going to have any problems playing quietly at home??


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