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Post subject: No acoustic modeling with new Fender Passport Mini
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:55 am
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Hi,

I just purchased a new Fender Passport Mini from Amazon. it arrived today and I plugged in my Ovation acoustic with a Lr Baggs M1 piclup. WHen i cycle through the presets, I barely hear anything at all on the 4 top settings, Normal, parlor, dreadnaught, and Junbo. When I get to the amps on the lower level, it seems to pick up and amplify just fine. But I bought it for the acoustic modeling.

Any ideas? I am going to try and program it with the usb cable, but mayb I'm just doing it wrong?

On the offending presets, if I turn up the volume all the way, I can sort of hear something through the speakers, and I can hear it change when I move the effects knob, but I am expecting amplification.

The vocal channel works fine. I can run a Beta 58a into it and it amplifies and sounds great.

Thanks in advance.
Doug


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:59 am
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Ok, I have more data. When I go in with Fuse, I can put a stomp box in front of the amp with the gain turned up, or a 'post' gain box afterwards and get the gain up on the guitar models, but they sound pushed. Should I have to do that? Why don't the factory presets work as is?

I am still not getting any amplification on the first 12 presets (norma, parlor, dreadnaught, and jumbo settings, there are 3 variations of each)

Thanks
Doug


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:21 am
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I suspect your problem is less with the amp than with the pickup. You'd do well to use a mic preamp to boost the signal before it gets to the Passport.

Basically "mic level" signals were invented because dynamic microphones naturally generate a signal at that strength level (a very weak signal), and "line level" signals (typically 20db louder than mic level) have been used for the greater part of a century as the standard signal strength level to feed a power amplifier (like your Passport). The Passport has a preamp built into it, but it only connects to the XLR input because XLR connections are normal for microphones. Line level devices more typically use 1/4" TS (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced) connections.

Your passive guitar pickup is basically a mic level device that uses a 1/4" TS connection. The Passport is expecting a line level signal and isn't getting it.

Think about it. An electric guitar is built around a pickup that is mounted as close to the strings as possible without physically hitting the strings while they are played, and hum bucker pickups usually have two rows of magnets, nearly doubling the signal strength, while canceling the noise. Your pickup has a fancy "stacked" hum bucker design that by its nature results in a weaker signal, and more than likely, your non-professional mounting of the pickup on your acoustic guitar is farther from the strings, making the signal much weaker. Also, acoustic guitar strings aren't really built for electric guitar pickups, so even at the same distance, they probably generate a weaker signal.

Adjust the pickup as close to the strings as you can, and consider getting a mic preamp to boost the signal up to levels typical for output from an electric guitar. My guess is that an actual electric guitar will be plenty loud on your Passport Mini.

I hope this helps.


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:36 am
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Note that the "vocal" setting expects mic level signals because vocal signals come in through a microphone. So, the "vocal" setting apparently kicks in the preamp.

If you really want acoustic sound, your first choice is a microphone, because that actually captures acoustic sound. Your second choice is piezoelectric pickup, since that captures the mechanical vibrations of the instrument at the bridge. It's not quite as true in tone as a mic, but it captures most of the features of the sound of the instrument that are varied in terms of the expressive changes made by the musician, and the peculiar sound-decay characteristics of the instrument (and piezoelectric pickups all have built-in preamps).

Third choice is a magnetic hum bucker pickup, like yours. It basically picks up the string's vibrations, not the guitar's vibrations. The expressive efforts of the musician are based on what the musician is hearing, which is the guitar's vibration, not the string's vibration, though the guitar's vibration affects the string vibration, like a person jumping on a trampoline. The string is the person. The guitar top is the trampoline.

Stacked hum buckers are quieter than side-by-side hum buckers, but they are smaller and fit better into a sound hole, and arguably, they look better. Your's advertises that it also manages to pick up the guitar's vibrations via the second stacked pickup, but likely that's marketing bullshit, given that the edge of the sound hole is heavily braced to STOP it from vibrating like the rest of the guitar. The business end of guitar vibration is the bridge. The sound hole is relatively mute, except for the air passing through it, and your pickup doesn't pick up the air passing through the sound hole.

Also, when they talk about an "active" version of your pickup, they mean one with a built-in preamp. If the manufacturer does a good job of tuning the pre-amp to properly tweak the EQ output from the pickup, they could improve the sound of the pickup, though they also could fail to do this well, and you'd just get a louder pickup that sounds like crap.

But all this is theory based on experience. Maybe I'm completely wrong.


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:48 pm
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Yes, I suspect you are right. I hadn't thought about that. I am not running into a preamp with the pickup. This explains why putting the pre-gain on the channel seems to make it better.

And I may have to tweak it a bit to get the sound I want out of it. I was sort of expecting magic to happen and have the model run and just work as is.

I was hoping to get a good sound directly out of the mini so I could use it for practice with just the guitar and a vocal mic.

Thanks
Doug


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:32 pm
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I got the mini passport on my recent trip to USA. I use acoustics with preamps, besides assortment of electrics, and do wonder about the fall off in volume in acoustic modeling compared to using electric amp presets. Haven't done much with fuse on acoustic presets (and have yet to figure out how to save presets in computer rather than amp...) but did notice volume section on acoustic models in fuse was maxed out. Have to set master volume up at about double that of twin model to get decent amount out. Seems someone dropped the ball on that part of otherwise splendid amp.


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 7:41 am
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Aspiring Musician
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It's good to consider what these presets do. Acoustic models are trying to play sound that resembles the acoustic sound coming out of the instrument, so there's no compression. The sound gets louder or softer out the amp just as it gets louder or softer out the instrument.
But electric guitar presets prefer artificial sustain created by compression. Play a loud sound and the compressor turns it down to The One Preferred Volume Level. As the note fades out acoustically, the compressor turns the volume up to The One Preferred Volume Level.
So, if the instrument you plug into the amp doesn't have a pre-amp built in, the volume will be less than The One Preferred Volume Level, and the acoustic presets won't fix the problem, but the electric presets will. That's not a bug. It's a feature.
You can fix it with a preamp. A decent acoustic guitar pickup should already have one, though it may be turned down too much, if there is one.


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Post subject: Re: No acoustic modeling with new fender passpor mini
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:24 am
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His problem (and mine) is not with preamp, or lack of, in acoustic electrics. I have Passport Mini and Mini Mustang (somewhat same amp). I usually have to turn down volume on acoustic electric when running through "electric" amp models on either amp, compared to standard electric. I also use Zoom A2 acoustic pedal sometimes. The bottom line is that the volume level is too low and the problem is with the amp. I may go the route of using an eq as a booster, or just skip those acoustic models, which is a pity as that was one reason I bought the amp....


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