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Post subject: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:42 pm
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For how long (in minutes) can one record to a flash drive, per GB of storage capacity?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:46 am
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The owner's manual doesn't directly answer the question, but it does tell you that it records .wav files at 16-bit definition at 44.1Hz sample rate. That means every second, you are taking 44,100 samples that consume two bytes each. So, 88.2KB per second. Sort of. KHz literally means 1,000 cycles per second, but KB literally means 1,024 bytes. So, 88.2 thousand bytes=88,200 bytes=86.13KB.

That's 5,292,000 bytes per minute, or 317,520,000 bytes per hour. Given the whole binary/decimal conversion mess, that's a squeak under 303MB per hour. Three hours is in the rough neighborhood of a GB. At 6 hours, you get uncomfortably close to one of the limits of the file system. It doesn't matter how big the drive is, bad things happen in FAT32 when individual files hit 2GB. For some systems, that's 4GB, but in general, it's good to keep files under 2GB.

If you use VMware Fusion to clone your Windows-based computer as a virtual machine on your Mac, it splits the image into 2GB files to avoid this problem. Old copies of Norton Ghost that backed up your hard drive as an image similarly split the image file into a pile of 2GB files for the same reason. NTFS and Apple's file system can both handle files much larger than this, but anything based on FAT32 or earlier chokes on single files bigger than 2GB.

So, at least once in every 6 hour span or so recording session, you want to hit that "Stop" button, and then hit the Record button again, so you split the recording into multiple files. Once you do that, you are free to fill the drive, assuming that you have formatted it as FAT32. ExFAT doesn't work on the Passport, nor does NTFS, HPFS, or any other file system (except maybe FAT16, which you don't want to use on any modern FLASH drive, because it can't handle the capacity of the drive).

I hope this helps. And if my math is wrong, hey, I'm working with what I got.

I've taken recordings more than 4 hours without problems. I don't recommend recording the drive to capacity, though. I'm pretty sure it doesn't gracefully stop recording and leave the recording in the kind of finished state that makes the resulting file useful. I also don't recommend turning off the Passport before you hit the stop button on the recording. Voice of Experience here. Listen and be wise.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:13 am
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Thank you for your exhaustive (but not exhausting) reply.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:35 pm
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Location: Just north of Calgary Alberta
How are you finding the 500 to record with ?, I find it brutal to get the sound right. I've got about 40 takes of "My way" and I've just about given up- tried my DXB voice compressor setting apon setting, trying this and that and just cant get the recording to sound the way I want it not to mention voice control is a major chore to get right. Playing live and then recording to me is 2 different thing big time. If your a member of sound cloud punch in-- Jen's wedding July 1011--that was the 1st recording I did with it just me and my Taylor no effects no nothing, and I got lucky on that one but besides that it's a lost cause for this guy .


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:53 am
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I prefer to record with a Zoom H2 rather than the USB/flash drive option, which seems to suffer from intermittent static. Maybe I need to try a different flash drive?

In response to your question, I'm generally recording spoken word (meetings, seminars)via the Passport 500 Pro, not music. That's a far more forgiving situation than recording music, so it's difficult to make comparisons. I'm happy with the sound quality when recording the PA's stereo out into the H2.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:43 am
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Just read up on it , I never heard of it before ,4 mic's in it ,looks pretty good .boy I'm in the wrong generation , I was pretty good with Revox reel to reel .l


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:11 pm
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The static you've witnessed is the digital equivalent of clipping. The sound is horrible, but it doesn't happen if you'll not use Channel 8 on the Fender Passport 500 Pro as an input, but instead watch the LED for that channel and make sure it doesn't turn red.

As you likely know, each channel has a circular dot at the top that is black when there's no signal, green if the signal is present and not loud, amber/yellow if the signal is near the top of the tolerable volume level, and red if it is too loud. You might not know (unless you read every detail in the manual) that the Channel 8 LED -- if you aren't using Channel 8 -- will give you the reading of the overall volume of your recording, if you are recording onto a flash drive on the unit.

Keep in mind that recording is an added feature. This is not a studio recorder. It is a PA system that can record. There's a difference.

Anyway, if you are recording, the Channel 8 LED should be mostly green, flash yellow every now and then during peak volume and never turn red. It will turn red every time you get that static sound. Actually, it turns red 3dB before clipping, but that's not enough for you to ignore it turning red.

The recording circuit bypasses the Master Volume and Master EQ, so if your recording is too loud, the only way to make it softer is to turn down every individual channel. You can turn the Master Volume up or down to make the live performance happy, but you can't make the recording happy with the Master Volume.

I've made several successful recordings, and one bad one. Watch the dot, and you can get decent recordings out of this unit.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:21 pm
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Rereading what I wrote, take note:

When I say, "If your recording is too loud," I mean DURING THE RECORDING PROCESS. If you make a recording that is too loud (and clips, making that horrible static sound), then the recording is ruined. There is no editing that recording to make it softer. The sound was making bits that didn't get recorded.

Basically, if you are recording a live performance, and you see red on Channel 8, then the recording is probably not going to be useful. During the sound check, make a little test recording and tell the band to be loud enough that they promise not to get louder during the performance than during this test.

Now, set the channel levels so that you get the mix you want, and Channel 8 doesn't turn red. Once you've done THAT test during the sound check, you PROBABLY will get a useful recording out of the live performance. If you don't do that much preparation work, then you probably won't get good recordings.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:00 pm
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@CC: Thanks for the further info. I did read in the manual about monitoring via Channel 8, but had forgotten it.

And as for the "static," I don't know why I didn't realize that this was digital clipping.

I kept a close watch on the Channel 8 input and was able to get a useful test recording onto the flash drive. I still think recording to the H2 via the stereo out jack (rather than recording to flash drive) is easier and more forgiving. But maybe I will do both so I have some redundancy.


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:24 am
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I totally agree that the Zoom H2 is a better recorder. The Stereo Out gives you a "Master Volume" knob for recording. The Passport 500 doesn't have one. Also, the H2 gives you a choice between a "Master Volume" control, or automatic volume control. So, you have lots of options with the H2.

But that does mean you have to buy an external digital recorder. You've already done that. For those who haven't, the USB port on the Passport 500 is a nice, little added feature that, with some planning and work, can provide very clear, useful recordings. I expected it to be much worse.

When I recorded a local Women's Choir with USB, I had to use the Stereo Out for headphones so I could ride the Master Volume to cruise the edge of feedback in the bad acoustic setting. I couldn't afford the luxury of patching my Olympus digital recorder into this, since it doesn't pass through headphones if Record is not turned on. So, I used the USB port, and they were happy with the result. I think they valued the recording more than the live PA.

This year, I have more options for fighting feedback, however...


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:32 am
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Besides the Zoom H2, I've also got a Zoom H2n, which has a manual gain control. Should be very handy. But I have found the Auto Gain Control on the H2 to work well.

Re feedback, are you going to patch in a Feedback Exterminator, or perhaps something similar?


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Post subject: Re: 500 Pro USB Record Time?
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:43 am
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As much as I love the mixer on my Passport, I need a separate monitor mix, and the Passport doesn't have it. So, I use an external, line level mixer to feed its outputs into one stereo channel on the Passport and use the Passport as a power amp and speakers. It sounds good and is beautifully portable, so I have no reason to replace the Passport.

So, I got a Mackie DL1608L mixer that offers up to six separate monitor mixes, plus 31 band EQ, and parametric EQ, which, with proper use, can give me options for fighting feedback in challenging acoustic environments.

Lots of other goodies in that box, too.


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