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Post subject: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:55 pm
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28 JUNE 2011

Howdy gang,

I have a Passport 500 that I'd like to use in a parade on the 4th of July. The speakers will be strapped down on the roof of my MINI Cooper and the mixer will be in the car ... with an iPod sending the audio signal.

Obviously, I won't have room for a gas-powered generator, so I'm hoping to use an inverter to grab power from either the lighter jack or directly wired to the battery to power the PP500.

I'm a bit nervous that the inverter to the lighter jack option could either fry my electrical system or trash the alternator. Thus, I'm thinking directly to the battery is the better option.

Here are a few questions:
- can I hook it to the car's battery?
- how long will it last before I drain the battery?
- should I get a 2nd battery for this application (and not run it to the running car battery)
- what capacity inverter would be appropriate?
- what else do I need to consider?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, suggestions, and limited laughter.

Blaine
The 'Nati


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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:03 pm
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Since no one has yet replied ... a friend has loaned me a 3000W inverter that can be wired directly to my battery. Obviously, it will have more than enough juice for the draw of the Passport 500.

I'd still like to know if folks think I should use the car's battery while I drive the parade or should go with a 2nd battery?

Other thoughts?

If no one replies before Monday, I'll post details of the results.


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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:43 pm
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Location: Bitterroot Valley, MT
cyberdaytona wrote:
Since no one has yet replied ... a friend has loaned me a 3000W inverter that can be wired directly to my battery. Obviously, it will have more than enough juice for the draw of the Passport 500.

I'd still like to know if folks think I should use the car's battery while I drive the parade or should go with a 2nd battery?

Other thoughts?

If no one replies before Monday, I'll post details of the results.


A 300 watt inverter will run just fine from the power port in a regular car.

If you go with a spare battery I'd still connect it to a power port to keep it topped off while you're running the PA. I've usee a similar setup to run a 1,5 KW inverter in my car for years... Sometimes it's nice to be able to run a microwave oven on the road<G>

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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:05 pm
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the inverter is 3000 W, not 300, so it doesn't have to hardly work to power the Passport 500.

I have the inverter hooked up directly to the (running) car battery and it works great. I borrowed the wire and clips from a battery charger and hooked them between the car battery and the inverter. with the car running and the PP500 speakers bungee-strapped to the open sunroof = facing out on both sides of the car (I have a bath towel folded over a few times laying between and slightly under the speakers to keep them from rocking around, since they have curved backs) on my mighty MINI Cooper. I have tested it with 'input volume' at full and master volume up to 7/10ths ... at this level it is really loud and sounds clear with no distortion. channel treble at 8/10ths, bass at 5/10ths, no reverb, and input is iPod at full volume. The lighted master volume meters are dancing close to the top light, but hey aren't pegged out at max, so I bet I could do more, if desired. I doubt I'll go beyond this level, as it is more than enough for the parade.

I'll let you know if we survive the 30 minute parade ... but I don't expect any issues. Seems like a solid set-up.

BTW - I tried the PP500 with a 150W inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter and it did not function well. The speakers would cut out as the bass drum or other 'punching' sounds would max out the systems (at levels below 5/10ths) which would trip 'shut off' for about 7 seconds before sound returned. Not sure if a 300W or 500W unit would do the same or not, but this is why I went with the bigger inverter and direct to the battery.


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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:25 am
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cyberdaytona wrote:
the inverter is 3000 W, not 300, so it doesn't have to hardly work to power the Passport 500.

I'll let you know if we survive the 30 minute parade ... but I don't expect any issues. Seems like a solid set-up.


That's a LOT different than a 300 watt anything<G>

But you've got the goods to run most anything... my whole house runs on less than that unless I'm running two appliances in the kitchen or the dryer<G>


cyberdaytona wrote:
Not sure if a 300W or 500W unit would do the same or not, but this is why I went with the bigger inverter and direct to the battery.


You're NOT going to get 250 amps of current out of a power port on any car... the wiring is about 1/10th the size needed...

That 150 watt inverter had to be a great unit to trip the overload in and out without smoke...

3,000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps... and probably a little more since the inverters aren't quite 100% efficient... (or they wouldn't heat up<G>)

A spare battery with a 10 ga wire to charge from the car's electrical system has worked very well for me... about 7 amps of charging current off the alternator and my inverter will run for days keeping just a computer up while I'm staying in a motel...<G>

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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:52 am
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the system with set-up as described worked nicely in the parade for the 30 minutes we were 'on route'. i ended up pushing the PP500 at about 7/10ths full volume the entire time with no issue. it was raining, so i had kitchen-sized garbage bags over the speakers to keep them dry. everything inside the car stayed dry. no issues and all worked great. we were plenty loud and the sound was clear. the first minute of this video shows it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 7NqChs3GAs


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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:26 pm
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cyberdaytona wrote:
the system with set-up as described worked nicely in the parade for the 30 minutes we were 'on route'. i ended up pushing the PP500 at about 7/10ths full volume the entire time with no issue. it was raining, so i had kitchen-sized garbage bags over the speakers to keep them dry. everything inside the car stayed dry. no issues and all worked great. we were plenty loud and the sound was clear. the first minute of this video shows it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 7NqChs3GAs


Glad to hear it went well...

I've had a lot of luck with my inverter... even happened to be carrying it one weekend when the scout troop thought there would be power for a ceremony and the circuit was down for repairs...

A heavy duty extension cord running from the back of the jeep saved the day<G>

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Still looking for that One Guitar To Rule Them All since 1964...
FSR Fender 60 Anniversary Strat HSS MIM, Gibson ES 335, Taylor 555, Ovation Custom Balladeer-12, Baby Taylor, Fender Princeton Chorus (stereo), Fender Champ 600


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Post subject: Re: Passport 500 for parade use from a car
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:54 am
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Wow. I'm impressed that your car's electrical system could handle the amperage of running the Passport 500 plus the overhead of a 3,000 watt inverter. I'm assuming it's a "true sine wave" inverter, since you didn't mention anything about hum.

The issue is that cars run 12 volt DC, which the inverter jacks up to 120 volt AC. The math is not quite this simple, but basically, 500 watts at 120 volts is a little over 4 amps. No big deal. Meanwhile, since the DC side has 1/10th the voltage, it has to have 10 times the amperage to generate the same wattage. You are now talking a little over 40 amps.

Amperage is the stuff that causes heat in a wire. Thinner wires heat more. Thicker ones heat less. 40 amps is a lot. Your car's wiring is not built for 40 amps.

Likely, you were saved by all the quiet parts of the music. You weren't driving the Passport to use up all 500 watts, even when it was loud, and whatever you were broadcasting probably had a lot of quiet moments mixed in with the loud moments.

Still, this is not something I'd recommend that you do often. The Mini is a great little car, and the Passport is a great little amp, but the Mini's electrical system was not built to drive the Passport, or anything like it, especially through an inverter that powerful.

Power transisters generate heat in an inverter. That heat is essentially the "overhead" cost of running the inverter. Bigger capacity inverters typically generate more heat and have more overhead. Your car's electrical system would have had an easier time of it had you used a 500 watt inverter. The bigger the inverter, the more overhead, and the hotter the wires in your car feeding the inverter.

So, it sounds like you lucked out. I wouldn't make this a regular thing, however. It's also good that you didn't do it longer than half an hour. Run longer, you could have had an electrical fire in the car, or burned out the alternator.

If you want to do this more often, it might be good to invest in deep cycle batteries just for the inverter, and really beefy cables to connect them to the inverter. That bypasses the car's electrical system entirely, and makes the high-amperage side of the system run through wires designed to handle that load.

Charge the batteries before the event, and make sure you have enough capacity to run the system for as long as you need it. A pair of 125 amp-hour 6-volt "industrial scrubber" batteries or golf cart batteries wired in series would probably do the trick nicely. That would run the amp for several hours on fully charged batteries.

You might want to also get a safety-disconnect switch and an appropriate fuse for the DC side of the setup. Otherwise, connecting and disconnecting wires can be an adventure in accidental arc-welding.


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