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Post subject: Fender Passport 150 loud enough?
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:38 pm
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my band is currently using a yamaha emx 150 with two 15" speakers. We plan to do a backyard show next month or so for 50-100 people. We are a ska band that has some punk in it. Is this going to be loud enough?


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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:42 am
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I think for your gig a Passport 300 Pro would be more suitable. Ska band with punk in it, backyard = loud! :)

Ken

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Post subject: Re: Fender Passport 150 loud enough?
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:13 am
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iloveemitchell wrote:
my band is currently using a yamaha emx 150 with two 15" speakers. We plan to do a backyard show next month or so for 50-100 people. We are a ska band that has some punk in it. Is this going to be loud enough?


The answer is NO. I have recently bought the new Passport Pro 150 (my 5th Passport to date) and it is very quiet indeed. Nothing like the 150 watt output rating so don't be mislead by the claims of Fender, read the reviews and what actual users are saying.

Ken will tell you to use pre-amps etc. but I am doing this and there is no way near enough headroom for even the most modest of surroundings. Mine is distorting really badly at what I would say is about the equivalent of a 15 watt guitar combo output. I am really disappointed especially as the sound quality at very quite levels is really impressive as is the quality if the reverb on the new pro. I wish Fender would listen to it's customers and do something to remedy the issue instead of arguing the toss all the time.

They would be better off re-rating there current line up. I would suggest 20w, 50w and 100w would be more fitting and less misleading for the 150w,300w and 500w models they are currently offering.

I will be sending mine back to the store today as it is unusable at this output and distorts terribly at anything like a live performance level. Not sure to take a chance on the 300w as I do love Passports for so many other reasons but I can't live with the lack of volume and the terrible distortion.

Al


By the way I use it for nylon guitar and wouldn't dream of trying to run a rock outfit through it!


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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:29 am
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Hi Al,

I would like to mention that the reason I do recommend to most people to either use a pre-amp or a DI box is simply because people seem to be plugging in their Strats directly into the Passport models which obviously the line input pre-amps won't have enough gain for that.

Also, the 150 Pro does make 75W per channel at 1% THD+N, we would never advertise this is it weren't true. One thing you can't do is compare a PA system to a guitar amp for example. A 30W guitar amp will blow a 150W PA system out of he water. The difference though is that a guitar amp doesn't have to reproduce the frequencies a PA will need to produce and a guitar amp is mostly boosted in the area where you ear is more sensitive.

If you're heavily distorting with the 150 Pro then yes, it is not suitable for your use obviously. The 300 Pro is a lot louder than the 150 Pro simply because a) it has more power but b) and more improtantly in this case the speaker enclosure is bigger than that of the 150 Pro.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Ken

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Ken Porter
Director, Audio Electronics R&D
Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:05 am
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Thanks for the reply Ken but I would still argue that the Pro 150 doesn't produce anything like the stated volume output before breaking up. I am aware of what you say about making a comparison with a guitar combo and would love you to hear my Pro 150 for yourself as I am sure you would agree something is amiss as it should produce more a lot more volume before distorting.

I use it with in conjunction with my classical guitar at weddings for providing background music so I am not trying to produce particularly high volume levels and yet it still breaks up. If the 150 is not the PA for me then I would like to know who it was designed for. I can't think of a user who would require less sound fortification then myself and who would drive the system less save perhaps a bingo caller in a tiny social club setting.

My 150 is on the way back to the supplier for repair and I have taken the gamble of ordering the 300 to tide me over in the meantime. I am a little resentful I have had to do this but despite my recent problems I am a big fan of the Passport series and have sold literally dozens of them for Fender on account of the number of musicians that have been impressed with my live sound (at very modest volume levels of course ;-)))

I have tried the Yamaha Stagepass and Bose L1 systems as alternatives but keep going back to the Fender, perhaps you could offer an endorsement and I would be happy to give you some ideas for improving the next generation. In case you are smiling at this point then you should know I have been a full-time pro for over 14 years and have sold tens of thousands of albums all over the world. Sorry if I appear pompous but I genuinely think a deal of some sort would be mutually beneficial.


With thanks

Al


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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:27 am
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Hi Al,

Thanks for your reply. Ok, since I don't have a way to listen to your 150 Pro, maybe there is something wrong with it indeed. It could be. We have sold thousands and thousands of these so far and the fact that I can still keep up by answering questions on the forum myself and our consumer relations department has no issues either I am assuming that most people are very satisfied with all three models.

The fact that most questions from people here on the forum are about them plugging in their low level high impedance Strats directly into the line inputs took me really by surprise and hence most of my answers are, please use a pre-amp / amp with line outputs (as intended) or a DI box.

However, the 150 Pro or any other model should not distort like you say it does unless you're clipping the pre-amp by either inserting too high of a signal, which the new Passports can handle over 20dBu of input signal or by clipping the pre-amp with the channel level control. The power amps in the new Passport actually all have soft limiters built in to prevent the power amp from excessively distorting.

In terms of the 150 Pro, it is similar to previous 150's but we've improved the speaker as well as a few other things. In terms of loudness they are all similar to each other. The 300 and 500 are pretty much completely new compared to older models.

I am glad that you prefer the Passport system over the competition, this is very much appreciated. Obviously in regards to endorsements I can't answer any of these questions since that is completely out of my area of knowledge, but maybe you would like to contact our consumer relations department to get you in touch with our artists relations department. All I can tell you though is that even a guy like Eric Clapton is buying his guitars from us.

Thanks,
Ken

_________________
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Ken Porter
Director, Audio Electronics R&D
Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
_______________________________________


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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:34 am
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Thanks once again for your quick reply Ken.

I have spent many hours in diagnosis of the problem with the 150 distorting and I can confirm that the problem definitely lies with the Passport. It may only be just the one speaker causing the problem. About 12 years ago I had the same problem with the then P150 and replaced all the speakers which solved the problem.
When Fender receive my Pro150 I think and hope they will do they same thing
and if not I will do so on it's return, but as it is only 2 months old and hasn't been pushed or abused I would expect Fender to do this under warranty.

I tested the Passport with 3 different guitars, passive and active pre-amps on board and outboard pre-amps passive and active pickups and different cabling options as well as using audio sources such as iPods at different levels with and without a headphone amp for optimising the ipods output (which naturally is very low). All my equipment and guitars are the very best pro equipment available and I am an experienced enough technician to recognise clipping and impedance mismatching and to know how to counteract these issues. Though I do appreciate you advice in this respect.

Because of the nature of the music I play through my Passport I am very sensitive to even the slightest distortion so the fact that the Passport shouldn't "excessively distort" would be unacceptable to me.......I expect no distortion at such moderate levels and I think that is wholly reasonable.

My New Pro 300 will be with me tomorrow and I shall be keen to see how this works for me. One thing I am pleased about is that I will now have phantom power to power my pre-amps and save the embarrassment of my 9v battery failing mid-concert.

Changing the subject slightly. I bought the available gig bag for the Pro150, which has served the job of protecting the speakers from scratching really well. Do you know where I could source (in the UK preferably) a similar cover for the pro300? I see there was one for the PD250........would this be a comfortable fit for the 300 or has Fender made a specific one (yet)?

Thanks for your co-operation

Al


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:37 am
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Hi Al,

Please contact our consumer relations department at consumerrelations@fender.com in regards to your warranty and dust cover question.

Thanks,
Ken

_________________
_______________________________________
Ken Porter
Director, Audio Electronics R&D
Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
_______________________________________


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