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Post subject: Passport 500 w/ AT 4033 Mic
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:01 pm
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Hi.. My three mates and I are just starting to use our new Passport 500. Our preference would be to use our AT 4033 omnidirectional condensor mic with it, but we are having serious feedback problems.

Can anyone recommend a way to set this up so we can avoid the feedback?
We play acoustic guitar, dobro, fiddle, and have three vocalists.

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

Thanks!!


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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:38 am
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Hi,

This is a tough one, since an omnidirectional mic with a PA sounds like trouble in general. As you know your mic, because of it being omnidirectional, will pick up everything from any direction; sound coming out from your Passport speakers to reflection from the walls, etc. In an open space if the speaker are in front of the mic pointing away from the mic you may get it to work well, but in gerneral I would recommend a cardiod mic or something that is more directional and doesn't pick up all the reflections. Make sure to point the speakers away from the mic. As mentioned it would be best to place them (speakers) in front of you so that your mic doesn't pick up your speakers.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Ken

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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:02 pm
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Thanks.....we've been tinkering, and seem to have had success, at least in two environments, at making the omni work. We get the speakers well ahead of the mic, and are careful about reflections from the rear. We do have a cardioid condensor mic -- a relatively cheap one! -- and just prefer the sound of the AT 4033.

Appreciate your help.


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:24 am
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dick43 wrote:
Thanks.....we've been tinkering, and seem to have had success, at least in two environments, at making the omni work. We get the speakers well ahead of the mic, and are careful about reflections from the rear. We do have a cardioid condensor mic -- a relatively cheap one! -- and just prefer the sound of the AT 4033.

Appreciate your help.


Hey! I have the original Passport PD-500 and also use Audio-Technica condenser mics (AE-5400) with it. We had problems with feedback too but my unit has Feedback Killer which took care of most of the problem.
I'm not sure if you are using a phantom powered mic pre-amp with your AT 4033, but something like a T.C. Helicon Create XT or Correct might help smooth things out.
One thing I will say for my Passport PD-500 is that with phantom power available on channels 1-6, I can plug my condenser mic DIRECTLY into the unit without a preamp and it still sounds sweet due to the onboard Digital FX.
I wish Fender had carried over some of these same features with the 500 Pro, although I like the upgraded recording and flash memory apps.

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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:17 am
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DoctorM wrote:
dick43 wrote:
Thanks.....we've been tinkering, and seem to have had success, at least in two environments, at making the omni work. We get the speakers well ahead of the mic, and are careful about reflections from the rear. We do have a cardioid condensor mic -- a relatively cheap one! -- and just prefer the sound of the AT 4033.

Appreciate your help.


Hey! I have the original Passport PD-500 and also use Audio-Technica condenser mics (AE-5400) with it. We had problems with feedback too but my unit has Feedback Killer which took care of most of the problem.
I'm not sure if you are using a phantom powered mic pre-amp with your AT 4033, but something like a T.C. Helicon Create XT or Correct might help smooth things out.
One thing I will say for my Passport PD-500 is that with phantom power available on channels 1-6, I can plug my condenser mic DIRECTLY into the unit without a preamp and it still sounds sweet due to the onboard Digital FX.
I wish Fender had carried over some of these same features with the 500 Pro, although I like the upgraded recording and flash memory apps.


Hi DoctorM,

The Passport 500 Pro still has phantom power on channels 1-6 and does not require a pre-amp for microphones. The mic-pres in the 500 Pro offer over 53dB of gain which should be enough gain for any microphone. So in short you can still plug in your condenser mic into the Passport 500 Pro directly. We have carried over a lot of the features of the older Passport models, and based on a survey we had conducted we eliminated features that the majority of people didn't use and included features that people seem to have wanted more, i.e. reducing the cost (by $400) as well as the size and weight and making the unit louder and sound even better.

Thanks,
Ken

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Ken Porter
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www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:39 pm
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Thank you Ken,

Yes, I know I can plug my condenser directly into the Passport 500 Pro but it does not have Feedback Killer or a full Digital FX as does the PD-500. One of issues mentioned was the problem with feedback was it not? Reverb is all the 500 Pro has in the way of effects.

My point is that this unit is being touted as an upgrade in the series of Passport models. I beg to differ. People can weigh the features for themselves, I simply pointed out some of them. One written review of the Passport Pro 500 said the speakers sound, "thin and lifeless, the amp clips at moderate volume." The musician said he was shipping it back. Maybe he expected something more but I have been very satisfied with the quality and tone of the older PD-500. I appreciate your expertise as a Fender employee but I am only relaying what others and myself think of the new Passport 500 Pro as consumers.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:25 pm
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DoctorM wrote:
Thank you Ken,

Yes, I know I can plug my condenser directly into the Passport 500 Pro but it does not have Feedback Killer or a full Digital FX as does the PD-500. One of issues mentioned was the problem with feedback was it not? Reverb is all the 500 Pro has in the way of effects.

My point is that this unit is being touted as an upgrade in the series of Passport models. I beg to differ. People can weigh the features for themselves, I simply pointed out some of them. One written review of the Passport Pro 500 said the speakers sound, "thin and lifeless, the amp clips at moderate volume." The musician said he was shipping it back. Maybe he expected something more but I have been very satisfied with the quality and tone of the older PD-500. I appreciate your expertise as a Fender employee but I am only relaying what others and myself think of the new Passport 500 Pro as consumers.


Hi Marie,

Thanks for your reply. I have seen the one customer review you are mentioning on MF about the 500 Pro sounding thin and I also saw another where you're saying that he was a friend of yours. That was one review, there are quite a few good reviews online as well (including this forum). I am not sure what was wrong with his unit, but as the design engineer of the Passport product line I can guarantee you that the 500 Pro has more bass than the PD-500. Have you been able to compare the two units? Have you been able to hear the 500 Pro yet? I honestly think that if you would have had a chance to listen to the 500 Pro that you would change your mind.

In regards to the feedback killer, yes we took it out of the unit because even the feedback killer didn't work in every scenario. Room, speaker placement and mic placement have a lot to do with with feedback and as you can see the person above was even able to make his 500 Pro work with an omnidirectional mic which is quite astounding to be honest. Respect to the original poster for this! :)

In the reviews that you've written you mention that we took away the mics and cables, and that we also don't have multi-effects anymore. However, you didn't mention that we reduced the price by $400 compared to the old PD-500 which that alone explains why those features have been removed. Also, you are stating that we aren't using Celestion speakers anymore which is why you or your friend thought the 500 Pro sounded thin when indeed the 500 Pro speakers were designed by Celestion engineers as well, we just eliminated advertising this as it doesn't mean much in the PA world. As a matter of fact the 10" woofer in the 500 Pro has a much lower bass extension than the PD-500 in addition we've included a dynamic EQ which gives you more bass at quieter volume settings and is being adjusted depending on the output volume so that the driver doesn't get damaged.

Instead of adding some OK multi-effects we added an amazing sounding reverb, and I bet that you would agree if you would hear it.

In addition, the majority of our customers wanted the unit to be lighter, louder, cheaper and better sounding. In our and in the opinion of our many testers we've accomplished all of that. Of course in order to reach this price point we couldn't include the microphones. Most of our customers already use their own mics anyway, so we thought why charge them for mics that they may not use?

As the design engineer of the Passport range I take a lot of pride in what I do and I can honestly say that so far everyone preferred the 500 Pro over the PD-500 in comparison. If you didn't then that's OK of course.

Of course we can't make everyone happy and in order for us to reduce the price we had to eliminate some features that according to our survey weren't used very often.

In short, the 500 Pro is an upgrade over the PD-500. It is lighter, smaller, sounds better, is louder and cheaper and has an excellent reverb as well as a USB playback and record functionality.

I really would love for you to go to a dealer and take a few minutes to listen to the 500 Pro. You won't be disappointed! Please don't base your opinion on something someone else thought of the unit (unfortunately from reading his review he may have had a faulty unit as the 500 Pro has a lot more headroom than the PD-500 as well and wouldn't clip or distort as he had mentioned).

Thanks,
Ken

PS: Btw, I am glad that you like your PD-500 because that too was a great unit! :)

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Ken Porter
Director, Audio Electronics R&D
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Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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Post subject: using passport 500pro w/ behringer feedback destroyer
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:18 am
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Hello,

We use our passport 500 pro w/ a condenser mic (cardioid). It works good, but I can't turn the volume up past 50%, due to the nature of the mic's sensitivity. I bought a behringer feedback destroyer pro 1124p, but I'm having trouble trying to figure out where to actually plug this into the system. It's talking about a sub group, yet I'm not supposed to plug the microphone directly into it. I'm a bit confused, and am very new to the audio scene. It might need to go through a pre-amp first, but I'm not sure. Does this seem like something that can be used w/ the passport 500 pro? Any suggestions? Thanks,

Dan


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:46 am
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Hi Dan,

Yeah, condenser mics for live use are always a bit tricky because they are so sensitive. Personally, for live use I prefer dynamic mics, even though they may not sound as nice.

One of the things you can try first is speaker placement and mic placement. This will definitely help, depending on the room too of course.

In regards to your feedback killer, one way you could use it with the 500 Pro, although not ideal, would be to slave it into the pre-amp out/power amp in. You would need two 1/4" Y-cables that have 1 TRS connector on one side and two TS connectors on the other. You can find them at most music stores.
The only issue with that would be that the feedback killer would be in the stereo mix, meaning not only would your vocals go through it but everything else you're plugging into the 500 Pro as well.

I used to have a feedback killer too and one thing I noticed was that at the end of the night my vocals would sound really muffled because it was constantly notching out certain frequencies and just adding on filters. I tried different settings too but they never seemed to work very well. '

Anyway, that's one way you could use your feedback killer. If it were me I would still try to use a less sensitive mic, i.e. dynamic with a cardioid pattern and play with the speaker placement.

Hope this helps!

Thanks,
Ken

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Ken Porter
Director, Audio Electronics R&D
Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:11 am
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Thanks for the quick response, Ken! Hmm..so, the 'feedback destroyer' has an "in" and an "out" 1/4 jack on each of the channels. So how would I use the Y cables to hook into this? I see the pre-amp out/power amp in has a 'left' and a 'right'. Sorry for my total lack of knowledge in this area. ("Damnit Jim!!, I'm a programmer, not an audiophob!")


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:56 pm
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Hi Dan,

Yes, your feedback destroyer has two input and output channels. Basically what you would do is purchase two Y-cables and connect the TRS side to the 500 Pro and the end with the two connectors to the input and output of the feedback destroyer. You would do this for both channels. It's also mentioned in the 500 Pro manual so you can look at that in case I didn't explain it very well.

Again, the downside of that though is that it's the entire stereo mix that will be going through the feedback destroyer. So please keep that in mind.

Hope this helps.

Ken

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Ken Porter
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Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:32 pm
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Thanks Ken, that worked perfectly, just as you said. Thanks again!

Dan


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:06 pm
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No problem. :)

Ken

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Ken Porter
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Research & Development
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
www.fender.com

Proud to be a Fender band member since 1997
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