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Post subject: PD-250 - adding powered monitor and mixing board
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:34 pm
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Hi there,

I hope someone (read: contracaller :lol: ) can help me with my desired set up.

I have learned much from your posts! This one is old but is getting me close -> https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=82110

So my equipment is a PD-250 (love it!), and a powered monitor Kustom KPC12MP -> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... or-speaker to the system.

I also have a mixing board Yamaha MG10XU -> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG10XU that I want to use.

Setup 1 is for karaoke that I do in a bar every Friday. So for that just passport and Kustom monitor. What is the best way to run that? The Kustom powered has a 'line out'. Could I just run the right channel speaker out of the passport into the Kustom then my right passport speaker out of the Kustom line out? What else would you suggest?

The next setup would be for smaller band gigs, using the Kustom as a monitor again but using the mixer to get more channels for more mics and instruments. Could I just do same setup as above and hook some instruments through the Yamaha and plug that into a line in in a channel of the passport?

Or what if I just wanted to use the Passport for power and send all instruments into and speakers out of the Yamaha mixer? How would I do that?

Sorry I am such a dolt about this. I need very specific instructions, like buy this xyz cable on amazon and stick it in that hole, etc.

In the post mentioned above 'thebottleopeners' said he got it working but was not specific about cables and hook up, etc.

Thanks - I appreciate your help!

Willie


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Post subject: Re: PD-250 - adding powered monitor and mixing board
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:15 am
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Contracaller - I am seeing this post -> https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php ... 50#p900401 where you say

"The best way to connect the Behringer into the Fender would be to get adapters that will either take the two 1/4" TS Main outputs (Left and Right) and combine them into one 1/4" TRS stereo plug to go into ST-1 or ST-2 on the Fender. "

So I assume that answers one of my questions but for the "get adapters" part - which ones? Do you have an Amazon link? That is my level. Majored in zoology instead EE!


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Post subject: Re: PD-250 - adding powered monitor and mixing board
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:18 am
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Keep in mind that signals that go through wires can be very different. A signal intended for one purpose can be intolerably strong for a different context, or so weak as to not be detectable. Going from weakest to strongest, there's the signal that comes from a microphone. A microphone's output is only useful as input for a microphone pre-amplifier, which is a device that makes the signal louder so that a mixer can use it. This is sometimes called a "mic pre-amp" or even just "pre".

The output from a mic pre-amp is a "line level" signal. This is also the output level for many other sound sources, like a synthesizer keyboard, or an electric guitar pickup, or a tape recorder. A lot of sound sources use line level as the standard. This is also roughly within the range of signal strength used for headphones.

Your Yamaha mixer and the Fender mixer have built-in mic pre-amps that can be switched on and off (which is essentially what the "pad" button does on the Yamaha) so that each input channel on the mixer can take output from a microphone or a line level sound source. Fender simplified things, assuming that an XLR uses a mic level signal and a 1/4" TS uses a line level signal, since these are common standards.

The "gain" knob is more like a fine-tuner for this input volume level, trying to make the signal as loud as possible without "clipping" (distortion that happens because the volume is too loud). If the volume is too low, then the inescapable electronic background noise that the system has (hiss and hum) can be loud enough to hear. Nobody wants this, so you try to drown out the noise with a high enough gain setting, without making the gain so loud that it distorts the signal.

Once the gain settings are acceptable, the rest of the "channel stack" allows you to modify the sound. You can change the bass/treble (often called EQ for "equalization"), or add reverb, and the slider at the bottom on the Yamaha lets you make all of that stuff louder or quieter in the "mix" of all the channels together. The Fender doesn't have a volume slider at the bottom because they engineered the mixer to be simple to operate, and some people get confused about the difference between the Gain setting at the top and the channel volume at the bottom, so you just have Gain at the top (and they call it "volume"). The output from the Yamaha mixer is "line level".

There's a third level of signal strength needed to drive speakers. As I said, line level is near the level of headphone input, but speakers are much bigger than headphones, and if you hold up headphones so that everyone in the room can hear the music... well, they won't hear much, because that's not a strong enough signal to play into a room.

That's when you take your line level input and run it through a "power amplifier". The output from the power amplifier drives the speakers.

The Fender Passport has the power amplifier built into the mixer. So, your "speaker out" ports have a signal intended only for "passive speakers". That's what the Passport speakers are.

Your "active monitor" is not a passive speaker. It takes line level signal and has its own built-in power amplifier. You will destroy it if you run powered output into your powered monitor. You will similarly destroy your Yamaha mixer if you run speaker output from the Passport into one of the Yamaha mixer's input channels. The "L" and "R" ports on your Passport are for the Passport's speakers only. The signal is not suitable for anything else.

Output from the Yamaha mixer is line level, so it's fine for input into the Passport's mixer, or for the powered monitor. According to the manual, the only line level output on a PD 250 is a pair of RCA jacks that say "Stereo Out" next to them. This is the kind of port that you often see on an old home sound system. Turntables and tape decks often use them.

If you want to use output from the Passport to anything else, these are the ports for this, and you need to get two adapters to go from male RCA to 1/4" TS (Tip, Sleeve).

Your idea of getting more channels by using both mixers has a problem: You have two mixers. If output from one of them is used for input to the other one, and then that second one has other sound sources added... whatever speakers are connected to the first mixer won't play anything that's connected to the second mixer. You can connect output from the Yamaha to the Passport's input, then use the Passport's speakers and use an adapter to connect one of the "stereo out" RCA ports on the Passport to your active monitor.

It just gets a little complicated, running two mixers in series like that. If you really want more than four inputs, you probably should pony up for a new mixer with more than four input channels. If you are trying to play music to a crowd, you don't really want to distract yourself with too much duct tape and bailing twine holding together a sound system that wasn't designed to do what you are doing with it.

I hope this helps.


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Post subject: Re: PD-250 - adding powered monitor and mixing board
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:41 pm
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Wow thanks contracaller - I will have more questions but wanted to thank you for your professorial reposnse.


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Post subject: Re: PD-250 - adding powered monitor and mixing board
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:12 am
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:24 am
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I'm no professional. I'm just a fixated hobbyist. Professionals actually make more money than they spend on gear.


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