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Post subject: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:09 pm
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I'm thinking of buying a bass EQ for my Rumble 500. Is this advisable? Can I also do the same settings/sound even without a separate EQ? I'm planning to buy Boss GEB-7 EQ.


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:43 am
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YES! 8) I have a Whirlwind Bass X, and love it. Here peruse this thread http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=89510

I would avoid the Boss, as the frequency choices are poor.

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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:10 am
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Nope, the GEB-7 nails it, and the Whirlwind doesn't.

Constant-Q equalization is fine for notching out problem frequencies in a feedback situation, but I believe it's the last thing you need for tone changes on an instrument, especially at low to moderate boost settings. The filter Q is too high for that job; it has the potential for creating hot spots on the fretboard, and changing the harmonic content of individual notes relative to one another. Might even exacerbate cab-related wolf tones under certain circumstances. This may be to your taste, but it's something I'd never do because in my view it's a misapplication of the constant-Q design. I want the tone of my instrument to be harmonically-consistent up and down and across the fretboard.

If I had an instrument that resonated loud in a particular range, or a cab that did the same thing, or an instrument that was dead-sounding in a narrow range of notes, then that Whirlwind would be exactly what I'd want. It would be absolutely spectacular in that application.

The wider-spaced (and hopefully variable-Q) filters on the Boss make much more sense for tone changes. And the frequencies make total sense, for the most part: 50 for "beef," and 400 and 500 for "gank reduction." 120 might be good if you want to emulate a Tech21 VT Bass's bass control, because that's more or less its knee point, though of course it intrudes smack into guitar territory slot-wise, so caution is advised. I would've made the 4.5K 2K or 2.5K for slap, and in my opinion the 10K is totally useless for anything but pulling all the way down to cut hiss level.

An advantage of a graphic EQ over the majority of built-in bass amp EQs is that the bottom slider (like all the others higher up) is peaking, not shelving. That means when you boost, say, the 50 Hz slider, you're not boosting everything below it by an equivalent amount and causing subsonic problems. (Some bass amps do have built-in subsonic filters, whether as a dedicated function or by the sum of all inter-stage coupling RC time constants, but they're rare, and a proper response curve for an amp really needs to be measured before any assumptions are made, with Genz Benz the clear exception.)

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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:40 am
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:lol: HaHaHa! :lol:

Just try them both if you can. I find the Boss to be nearly useless and complete waste of a C-Note. You may think otherwise. The choice is up to you.

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:40 am
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Hey guys,

Both of you have good points which I really have to ponder. However, Whirlwind doesn't have a distributor here in the Philippines so I can't really include it in my choice.

Beside Boss, are there other brands you think that are better?

Thanks!!!


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:39 am
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I was considering this MarkBass EQ, before I bought the Whirlwind.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Markbass-MB7-Booster-7-Band-Bass-Graphic-EQ-108275389-i2678261.gc


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:09 am
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This Behringer is a copy of the Boss with the exact same frequency sliders. Just $25
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BEQ700


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:19 am
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This MXR at least has a 31Hz slider instead of starting at a rather anemic 50Hz like the Boss
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/10BandEQ


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 5:00 pm
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Linnin, will you PLEASE stop passing out bad advice.

A 31 Hz slider is exactly what you do NOT want. 1) It's well below the lowest frequency any production bass cab or PA bass bin can safely reproduce. 2) The audience wouldn't be able to hear it anyway. 3) The sound man would rush the stage and throttle you with his hands, whether or not you're sending that disaster up to his console, and for valid reason.

The so-called "anemic" 50 Hz slider is pretty close to the frequency that needs to be boosted to add weight/beef to BG, without creating a giant subsonic mud puddle at the bottom end.

Other EQs: I might consider an MXR ten-band, but I'd want to see some EQ curves on it first, to make sure it's not constant-Q.

I would agree with Linnin that the Behringer clone of the Boss looks intriguing. My two concerns would be durability and noise. I'm not saying it's not durable or is noisy, just that I'd want to see some reviews first. However, my philosophy is you never regret spending more money for a decent piece of gear, but you often regret cheaping out when you could have had better. Also, consider the resale value of the Boss: it probably has some. The resale value of the Behringer is probably zero.

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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:36 pm
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Thanks guys!

I can probably try out the Behringer and MXR. There are shops here that carry those brands. As for MarkBass, I'll check if there are dealers here.

I hope hope I can drop by the music store this weekend so I can compare these EQs.


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:45 am
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craig.p wrote:
Linnin, will you PLEASE stop passing out bad advice.

If anyone is passing bad advice here craig, it's YOU!

You don't even know what the midrage of bass guitar is!!! Your so called expert woofer advice was 100% WRONG!

So my well experienced advice is to do the exact opposite of whatever craig says and you'll be fine.

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:35 am
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Linnin, your opinion means less than zero to me. You clearly have no engineering expertise whatsoever (I do), no experience designing anything (I do), and apparently no shame at being wrong every time you are wrong. All these opportunities to learn something from people here (and elsewhere) who have been doing this for decades and making good money at it -- and all you can do is make a joke of the situation, or worse, make snide, offensive remarks and insult the people who are trying to help? I do not understand why you have to be so defensive. There's no shame in being wrong, but what's really pathetic is that you refuse to set aside your pride, stop your defensive mud-slinging, and learn something for a change. If it was just you and me, I frankly wouldn't bother with responding, but there are other people in this thread who are asking for advice and trying to learn something, and your contributions are doing them no good whatsoever. Please stop -- if not out of honor, then at least because you wish the best possible outcome for them.

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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:54 am
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I learned by calling the people that make and design the things in which I am interested. So glad that I called Eminence and talked to speaker designer 'Big Tony', who told that the Eminence S2012 Basslite Neo was absolutely perfect for my Rumble 75. It is wonderful. Result: craigp has no idea what he is talking about.

I called the good people at Whirlwind and and was engaged in an exchange of emails from engineer Tony Gambacurta, of which I have shared some quotes in my tone sculpting thread.

Image
" The new Whirlwind 10 band equalizers were designed by Tony Gambacurta, affectionately referred to as the Guru of modern EQs. Gambacurta has been designing audio products for over 35 years at MXR, ART and Whirlwind. That said, we are proud to announce the release of the THE PERFECT TEN and THE BASS TEN EQs... Tour proven, sonically superior, and American made.

The BASS TEN opens up a whole new world for Bass players. This unbelievably clean, 10 band EQ has finally made it possible for bass players to tailor their tone with a level of precision and clarity that hasn’t existed in a pedal until now. Like the Perfect Ten, its constant Q design make adjustment easy and intuitive. (Constant Q means that each band’s frequency width remains the same for small boosts as well as large boosts), giving you unparalleled control and sensitivity. Built in the USA, this tour proven pedal will undoubtedly become a must have in your arsenal... Play through it once and you’ll never turn it off."
Result: craigp has no idea what he is talking about. As I said before just do the opposite of whatever craip says and you'll be just fine.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/effects/bass-ten-10-band-eq-fx-pedal

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:13 pm
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Okay, Linnin, now I remember that bass-driver incident. Vaguely. I think I issued some cautions around their extreme midrange peakiness, which Deltalites are known for and the reason why some cab builders won't use them. I think I said you'd consume most of your mid/treble cut capability getting rid of that peakiness if it didn't suit you. I stand by that statement. Look at the Deltalite response curve if you don't believe me. If you like how that thing sounds, then God bless you, bud, but I can't stand those drivers unless they're bandwidth limited at the top end by a crossover that kicks in at at least 2.5 KHz, and preferably lower. Again, this is from personal design experience.

On the EQ thing, it totally baffles me why you can't digest the fact that constant-Q equalizers can be sawtooth-peaky at low settings, and why you fail to see the relevance of that fact to an instrument's evenness of tone and harmonic structure within its operating range. This is the reason why Leo's low-Q passive tone stacks sound so good -- they're totally smooth across most of their (wide) ranges, but still give you the option to notch out mid gank outside the range of a BG's fundamentals. These are facts and are simply not up for debate. Don't believe me? Ask Bob Gallien what he thinks of graphic EQs in general, let alone constant-Q ones, for shaping BG tone. I stand by everything I said about that unit and about the other ones I commented on. Again, I'm not saying the Whirlwind is a bad unit, just not a great match to the job unless you actually DO want to notch something due to something in the signal chain or the room or the instrument itself being suboptimal.

That's about all I have to say here, unless you have some solid engineering data and/or design experience to back up your refutations, to make them actually defensible.

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Post subject: Re: Bass Equalizer on a Rumble 500
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:23 pm
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Linnin, below is a Westhost article on a constant-Q equalizer that will help you better understand why I made the statements I did.

http://sound.westhost.com/project75.htm

The important thing to understand is that it's the *Q* that's constant. The intro section explains it pretty well.

Hope this helps you better understand how this type of equalizer works, and why it may not be suited to all tasks.

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