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Post subject: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:02 pm
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I bought a Fender Rumble 500 v3 a few days ago and used it i a gig the following day. I like how it sound and really find it great. However, the line out does not have any volume level control. I set the volume of the amp to a level that I can hear when all of the other instruments play but the volume on the PA is already close to zero and the volume of coming out from it is still too loud. So I don't have any choice but to lower the volume of the amp but I cannot hear my bass sound so much.

Is there any workaround or equipment that I can use to solve the problem? For the latter, how do I connect it?

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:26 am
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http://www.parts-express.com/in-line-xlr-attenuator-pad-20db--240-416

You can also get 10dB and 15dB variants, but I'm guessing the 20dB is the one you'll want.

Buy a second (short) XLR cable and plug the attenuator into the cable. (Amp -> cable -> attenuator -> cable -> board.) Do not plug the attenuator directly into the back of the amp. This is for mechanical/stress reasons.

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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:46 am
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Thanks a lot craig.p!!! This is great. I hope I'll find one here. I search the internet and find that Audiotechnica has one with adjustable dB.

BTW, (pardon my ignorance) what do you mean by mechanical stress?


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:19 am
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XLR chassis connectors, and the thin metal fab they're riveted (or bolted) into, are not designed for significant lateral mechanical loads. Especially sudden, extreme ones, like some careless moron tripping over your DI cable. Run through all the possible real-world scenarios, and you'll get it. It's simply a question of Best Practices and risk reduction.

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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:36 am
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Another thing is that you simply do not need to be in the PA at all, and your Rumble 500 combo is perfectly adequate to carry the room on it's own.

You are louder out in the audience than you are on stage. So if your stage volume is good, and you've EQ'd for the room, then your venue volume should be fine.

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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:39 am
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@craig.p:

Now I understand. Thanks a lot! Short discussion but I learned a lot from you. The only problem now is that I can't find one here. My last resort would probably buy online. Till next time.

@linnin:

That's what I really planned but the music director wanted the PA/mixer setup so all instruments' sound would be balance. Our venue is a very big auditorium. Not sure only with the actual floor area.


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:43 pm
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froi wrote:
@linnin:

That's what I really planned but the music director wanted the PA/mixer setup so all instruments' sound would be balance. Our venue is a very big auditorium. Not sure only with the actual floor area.


When no one's looking just unplug the XRL cable, and turn up your master volume. Be sure to look innocent, and smile :mrgreen:

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2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:07 pm
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Hahaha! I might consider doing that one day. :D

My problem now is that I can't find one here in the Philippines and I can't find an online shop that ships the product here.

Using attenuator is a good solution since it is not that expensive but given the issue above, I need to consider other solutions.

Some music shops here recommend to use DI box or pre-amp with DI but I find it expensive. The shop says the pre-amp with DI is a nice solution since I can get a consistent sound regardless of whatever amp I'll be using. Given that in other out of town venues where we are invited to play, the sound system is already provided so I don't have to bring my amp. They may be right on consistent sound but a good pre-amp with DI is a but pricey so I am not considering that yet for now.


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:55 am
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:idea: :arrow: seems to me your sound person doesn't really know what they are doing. :shock: Even inexpensive mixing boards have a trim pad on each channel to lower a too hot signal. Plus I know for a fact that the Rumble's XLR out isn't at all hot. A bit high, yes, but not hot. If they still can't figure it out, tell them to simply mic your combo. Problem solved with no expense to you. If they don't have a suitable microphone tell them to buy one. Not your problem. You own one of the very best bass amps on the planet with a perfectly usable XLR line out. Their incompetence is not your problem. Tell them to deal with it. :twisted:

addendum: Some sound boards have mic pre-amps on each channel. Make sure that damn thing is turned off. Also NO 48v Phantom Power! :evil:

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:30 am
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It's possible the board's pad can't attenuate enough to prevent the signal from overdriving the channel's front end. Newer boards' input preamps seem to be able to take a much higher signal level than older boards' preamps. Also, these days it's not all that uncommon to find line-level voltages on XLR/balanced signals going out to the console. Back when I started playing, it was unheard of; XLR-based signals were assumed to be mic-level, and never line-level. If you sent a line-level signal to the board, you always did it via unbalanced cables and phone plugs, and the high signal level was enough to overcome any injected noise. All snake heads had maybe a third of their circuits single-ended and phone-jack-based, and the rest were balanced and XLR-based. If the snakes you're plugging into have unused phone jacks, check with the sound people and see if they will accept a TRUE line-level signal from your amp, like maybe your effects loop out, via an instrument cable you connect from there to the snake head.

Something else you can try, if you know someone who's capable: On the schematic, page 3, coordinates B3/B4, you can see the XLR connector's pin 2 being fed via a 3.32 Kohm isolation resistor, R238. If you change this value to something around 10 Kohms, or maybe a little higher, that should drop your signal level enough for almost any board. It's true increasing that value above what it is could add a bit of noise, since that resistor is in series with the signal. However, it may not be enough to cause a problem in the real world of live-sound systems, which always seem to emit low levels of background noise. I would say change R237 at pin 3 to 10 Kohms as well, except for the life of me I can't understand what those people are doing design-wise to generate a balanced signal, since pin 3 seems not to have any voltage source at all (this is schematic version 3). Might even be an error in the print set. Anyway, that's something you (or a tech, if you know one) might want to try.

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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:27 am
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@linnin:

I'll check that out. I'm not familiar with controls on the mixer so I can tell the sound guy what to do.

The mic setup is a good idea that I can ask them to consider. Since the Rumble amp has 2 speakers, do I need to use 2 mics too or one is sufficient? Will there be sound difference between the 2 setup?

@craig.p:

Won't changing the resistor void the warranty of the amp?



Thanks guys, as always! :)


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:16 am
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Ah, I missed the fact this was a new amp. Yes, it will void the warranty, unless you can get an authorized repair shop to do it.

You could accomplish essentially the same thing with a little metal box (for shielding) and a couple of resistors or even a 10 Kohm stereo potentiometer. Electronically, it's ugly as hell in terms of design (susceptibility to noise), but it might work in practice.

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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:28 am
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I'll check if someone can do that here but I'll have ask the sound guy regarding the Trim in the mixer. That might solve the problem if he didn't adjust that at all.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Line Out Volume Control for Rumble 500 v3
Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:25 am
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I think my problem is already solved. The sound guy just did not adjust the trim setting.

I was in a gig last Saturday with another sound guy and another set of mixer and other equipments and there is no issue at all. So it all boils down to the experience and knowledge of the sound engineer.

Thanks guys for your replies, ideas and suggestions. It really helped me a lot!!!


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