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Post subject: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:56 pm
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okay folks i am brand new to cabs i used a combo amp for forever now and i got a 2X10 cab which runs 200 watts at 8ohms now for my head does it have to be 200 watts and under at 8ohms i am confuzzled


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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:07 pm
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Ideally the impedance of both the amp and the cabinet should match for maximum efficiency. The power output of an amp can be less than the rating of a speaker system but it should never be more lest the drivers be overpowered and damaged.

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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:20 pm
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Retroverbial is correct. You have an 8 Ohm cab. Most solid state bass heads are 4 Ohm minimum amps. You can still use this 8 Ohm cab alone with most 4 Ohm minimum amps so long as they have a rated power output at 8 Ohms of under 200 watts. The problem is finding a matching amp power wise can be problematic as most heads have their power specified at the 4 Ohm minimum load and makers don't always list the power output when used into 8 Ohms.

You'd think a 200 watt amp might be perfect for it, but actually that 200 watt amp is 200 watts at 4 Ohms. Into an 8 Ohm load that 200 watt amp will do significantly less. It is will still work fine, you just won't be getting 200 watts from it into a single 8 Ohm cab.

The Rumble 350 (actually specs at 370 watts into 4 Ohms) would be a good match with a single 200 watt 8 Ohm cab. It will do right around 200 watts into 8 Ohms. In general you can roughly halve the 4 ohm power rating for an 8 Ohm load. Roughly.

Add a second 8 Ohm cab and you now have a 4 Ohm load which maximizes the amp's output. The Rumble 350 would be a good choice in your case I think. When you add a second 8 Ohm cab later you'll then be using all the amp's power.

Take one cab to rehearsals and both cabs to gigs. It is convenient and flexible. An alternative would be to use a single 4 Ohm cab and only move one cab all the time, but depending on what your second cab becomes you can make your "stack" more flexible for smaller gigs, rehearsals and large gigs by owning a pair 8 Ohm cabs. When I needed a stack I mainly used a 2x10 and a 1x15, both 8 Ohms and it gave a really good mix of tonal range between the two cabs. This stack's tone doesn't carry as well outdoors as indoors because indoors it kills but outdoors it sounds sort of wimpy. Outdoors I highly preferred a 4x10 or 8x10 because a single 15 just does not carry well outdoors for me. For rehearsals indoors where you don't need gig volume I'd take the lightest cab, in my case the 1x15 Neo cab. It is plenty loud enough for rehearsals when you take just one cab.

High powered stacks are sort of passe for me. Oh I still have cabs and heads here, but I just don't use them much. Mostly I use a small combo and patch into the PA at gigs. If you are lucky enough to be in a band with a big PA with subs you can do that. Gladly I have been for a while. I haven't actually moved my stack in a while. If I was in a band without a truck load of PA gear then I'd have to move it, but for now I don't.


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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:17 pm
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good points brotherdave i will eventually add on to my rig, would you think this head would work or it being 250 watts it would affect the speakers?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... s-amp-head


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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:45 pm
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That particular amp, the TC Electronic BH250, is 250 watts into 4 Ohms. With a single 8 Ohm cab the power will be about half that. 125 watts might be enough for a garage jam but you might find it lacking for gigs without PA assist. Forum member Mr. Nylon has a TC combo I think, so you might want to track him down and ask him about it. He seems to like his a lot as I recall.

If it was me, I'd spring the extra $100 for the Rumble 350. The TC Electronic warranty is ONE YEAR in the USA. The Fender warranty is FIVE YEARS in the USA and it is transferable so keep the sales receipt and you or the next owner or owners after that will all be covered for 5 years parts and labor as long as they have the original receipt. Always compare warranties. You might think they aren't important but when the amp breaks it suddenly becomes a very big deal.

If I needed a head right now in your situation I'd buy the Rumble 350 head.

What can wind up happening with a lower powered amp is that you'll push it harder to get a usable volume. That will lead to clipping which can not only sound bad at extremes but will also damage speakers.

When clipping starts on a bass amp you really can't hear it well at all. So this speaker damage can happen faster than your might think! My personal rule with a bass amp is my "12 o'clock Rule." If I have to turn the master beyond half way up, or 12 o'clock, I need a more powerful head. I might push one to "1 o'clock" by cutting the low frequency EQ boost a bit first but that is it.

Low end frequencies take a lot of power and my EQ setting usually has the lows boosted beyond flat. Preamp voicings on many bass amps are bass flavored anyway, meaning that even with everything set so it appears to be flat, in reality there is a built in weighting toward the lows. Typically most bassists set their EQ to be weighted toward bass as I do. In reality with a solid state bass amp due to the heavy low frequency emphasis that most players use, it is good to know up front that when you get to 12 or 1 o'clock with a typical EQ setting you are just about out of clean power. Half volume on the master is really more like 80% to 90% of the clean power most sold state bass amps can produce.

It is possible to blow a 200 watt speaker or even a 400 watt speaker with a 125 watt solid state bass amp. Just push the amp way into clipping and play it that way for a while. Remember the "12 o'clock rule" and that should not happen. If the 125 watt amp sounds loud enough at 12 o'clock on the master then there is no reason not to use it.

Some solid state bass amps use a protection circuit that detects clipping and will show a red warning light when the amp is going into clipping and will engage a compression circuit that automatically controls the level holding the volume down when clipping is detected. Some amps with this feature have a switch to turn off the auto protection compression. Do not ever turn that switch off. Others don't have a light but do have the detection/compression circuit with no way to turn it off. Lots of Peavey amps, especially the vintage USA combos had that protection built in with no off switch. This is sometimes called a "DDT compression" circuit. On amps with this clip detection/protection circuitry you can crank the master up but it actually doesn't get any louder and just sounds squashed. With my EQ settings this usually starts happening to me just past 1 o'clock so I try to never go there. By stopping at 12 o'clock I avoid most clipping.

As I mentioned with bass frequencies you really can't hear clipping until it is really really extreme. However even a little clipping that you can not hear is not good for speakers. Stop at 12 o'clock on the master.


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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:21 pm
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Hi BD. I have the Markbass Combo now. I did have the TC Electronic RH450 head before I went the Combo/Cab Markbass. The TC E. heads are very good. I can't argue though, the Fender Rumble 350 head being a serious amp head. A good compact powerhouse. A five year transferable warranty is something to be put at, or very close to the top of the list for pros of the 350 head. The Rumble 350 head is no way a beginners head. Fender didn't forget to much to incorporate into the 350 head.

Clipping is going to cause the speakers to over heat. I definitely watch for the clipping light if I do a change in settings, especially my gain.

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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:25 pm
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okay it makes sense to me know I have traded in the 2X10 and got a 400 WATT 4x10 Hartke and I will purchase a Galien Kruger 200 watt head that should do the trick thank you for explaining it to me


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Post subject: Re: Heads n Cabs
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:26 pm
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Tamey, Fantastic.


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