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Post subject: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:27 am
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My recent woofer research has spawned a parallel inquest into the spectrum of the frequency range of the electric bass guitar.

:idea: This is helpful :arrow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

I find this Bass 10 EQ box by Whirlwind to be both intriguing and instructive.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Bass10EQ/

20Hz to 3KHz and the choices of the frequencies are most enlightening.

20 - 40 - 80 - 160 - 320 - 600 - 900 - 1300 - 1800 - 3000Hz

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


Last edited by linnin on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:35 am
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:arrow: Very Informative


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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:27 am
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Who hasn't walked up to a piano and hammered down on the lowest note, an 'A' at 27.5Hz, and listened to the delicious lowness and timbre of the tone? Likewise who hasn't plunked the highest note, an eighth octive 'C' at 4186.01Hz, and heard that quick little 'tink'?

A standard 20 fret four string Fender Electric Bass Guitar starts out at an 41.2Hz 'E' and goes up to a D# at 311.1Hz. There are undertones and overtones that must also be amplified and reproduced by the bass amp. So how wide a range do you really need for good bass sound?

Do you really need to know anything at all about acoustics; psychoacoustics, tone, or EQ?

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


Last edited by linnin on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:24 pm
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Tone Palette & Tone Terms

We often express tone in artistic terms such as an artist's palette. If something sounds hot or is warm it is red, or if it is cool or cold then it is blue. So here we have some temperature descriptors also. If it sounds green it is sick or bad. The colloquialisms of the day can be confusing where if something sounds sick or nasty that means it sounds great. Sometimes if something is said to be bad, it is actually good. In the 1950's if somthing sounded good, it was said to be 'Boss'. In the mid 1960's we became 'Groovy'. It is little wonder we have a difficult time describing tone in terms we can all understand.

Sometimes we use terms of violence like 'Punch', and 'Attack'. I love my hot rod Precision because it has extreme purcussive attack and punch like a heavyweight champ. Your highs may have some 'spank'.

Animal terms are also used, especially in describing jazz bass tone such as 'snarl' in the high-mids and 'growl' in the low-mids. Precisions can also exhibit outrageously great growl. A good sounding jazz bass bridge pick-up will 'bark' out the notes and exhibit highs that spank, or have good 'bite'. My jazz bass custom shop bridge pick-up has all three at once and very well balanced too.

We also use sexual terms to describe the low or 'bottom' end of our tone. I happen to like my lows to be: full, round, and tight. Never flabby. We may like our tone to be thick and rich. Thin may be in for guitars, but most bass players like fat (or phatt :roll: ) bottom tone. If you have huge aggressive tone, you have 'balls'. Your total tone package may present itself with a lot of 'thrust' and be 'in-your-face'.

Most like clarity and definition. Clear tone - never muddy. Well defined - never ambiguous. Although there are some bass players that do like muddy indestinct 'untone' or 'non-tone'.

Sometimes we use other sounds to describe tone. A hallmark of stock Fender split Precision pick-ups is a pronounced mid-range 'honk'. Also 15" woofers can be very 'honky' if the cabinets are unlined. This has led to the 'scooping' of the mid-range to reduce or eliminate 'honkiness'. It has also become way way overdone.

We also describe tone in terms of light. GHS Precision Flats are 'dark' sounding. Your tone may be light and airy. Your highs may be 'crystalline', and 'sparkle'.

Death Metal is very dark with drop tunings, even 5-string basses down tuned to the lowest 'A'. I don't listen to this suff and have no further comment.

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2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:37 pm
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Thanks, Linnin. I am enjoying this topic.

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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:22 am
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modwiz wrote:
Thanks, Linnin. I am enjoying this topic.


:D You are quite welcome, modwiz! I was, and still am hoping to establish an ongoing tone dialogue. This is supposed to be an exploratory thread of discovery both open ended and open minded. Feel free to jump right in! The Tone Pool Is Open 8)

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2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:57 pm
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Flat Is Flat


A true story. A wealthy acquaintance bought a $$$$$ stereo. It was as Hi-Fidelity as they came. New at the time was a pink noise generator and some kind of meter to measure the frequency response of his system. He got everything dead flat, and guess what? It sounded dead. He called me to help and I brought a bass player friend of mine that had superlative ears and a great sense of tone. We listened to some certain records we had brought and started making tone adjustments. By the end of the night we had the stereo sounding like a million bucks. It was far from flat, but it sounded wonderful.

Neither one of us were or are degreed acoustic engineers. We are bass players, and well aware of the psychoacoustics that make up our aural environment. We know good tone because we listen to music that sounds good to us, and we figure out how to get the good tone.

Tone is very Gestaltist in nature in that the precieved whole is something other than the sum of its parts. It could be more, or it could be less. Rarely is it ever equal. If it were then every bass would sound the same. Afterall don't all the notes vibrate at the very same frequency on every bass? A low 'E' is a low 'E' on all of them isn't it? Doesn't every piano sound exactly the same?

While the science of acoustics is useful, good tone is an art.

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:52 am
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Science & Art

Here's another real life example that played itself out right here on this very forum. :)

I modded my Rumble 75 and installed an Eminence Basslite S2012 Neo Woofer. Our western minds are trained to be very scientific. Highly trained engineers work at Eminence designing speakers that sound great. They design the manufacturing process, and the quality assurance. They test. They give us the speaker's specifications to read on their website. They are very good. The stated frequency range is 49Hz to 4.5KHz. It will go lower and depends upon cabinet design and how it's tuned. There's a nice interactive graph too. The 'flat line' for the woofer is about 98dB and the response curve hangs around that line until it breaks above 100dB at 1700Hz and climbs steadily to a 106dB peak at 2325Hz. Then it falls off fairly quickly recrossing the 'flat line' at about 4500Hz. OK, so there's your science for you.

A very scientific and well meaning forum member recommended against the S2012 due to a "nasty spike in the mid-range". In a PA speaker or a stereo a 2325Hz peak would be in the mid-range, but we are talking Fender electric bass guitars here. The very middle of a bass' mid-range is 650-700Hz. That speaker's peak at 2325Hz is very clearly and solidly in the highs for bass.

The reality is that this woofer does indeed sound great, and was absolutely perfect for the application! Although I haven't talked to Eminence's design engineer, I am willing to bet that that preasence peak was designed that way on purpose to make the speaker sound better! It does give the highs a crisp airiness that would otherwise be missing in a flat speaker design. I'll also bet they do a lot of critical listening too. Psychoacoustics, Baby! That's where it's at. :wink:

Don't let science hold your art captive. Instead use intuitive critical listening to achieve good tone and enslave science for your heuristic use.

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:38 am
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What Now?

Ok, so what's next? Do we just twiddle and fiddle with the knobs until just by happenstance we serendipitously come upon some good tone? Yes, that does work if you are diligent and know when to stop once you've arrived at your tone destination. That's exactly how I started out eons ago.

Three or four tone controls just isn't enough, and the concept of 'EQ Sculpting' intrigues me. Therefore a dedicated graphic EQ is most definitely required. The previously mentioned Whirlwind Bass 10 EQ is such a device. It's expensive though at $250, but how else are you going to take your: bass, amp, and speaker(s) and sculpt the tone into an earpleasing whole?

Some People Are Clueless
Sadly, it's true that some people just don't know what to do with three knobs (bass, mids, & treble). Is there any help for them? Well, I have tried, haven't I?

http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=73385

http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87191

and there are more, but there is a two url limit per post.

So What Do You Do? What's Your Approach To Tone?

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:28 am
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I wrote an email to Whirlwind requesting additional intel on their Bass 10.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/effects/bass-ten-10-band-eq-fx-pedal

I got this reply from the actual engineer that designed the pedal, Tony Gambacurta:

"Hi Linn-
Thanks for your interest in the Whirlwind Bass 10 equalizer.
I am one of the designers of the Bass 10. I did the circuit design, however, the frequencies chosen were done by a couple of professional bass players here at Whirlwind.
The concept is to give greater resolution in the harmonic region of the bass guitar.

The frequencies chosen and the associated Q values for the internal band pass filters are as follows:

FREQ Q (approx)
20 2
40 2
80 2
160 2
320 2
600 3
905 4
1280 4
1810 4
3000 4

bands 20 through 320 are on octave centers, typical of a 10 band equalizer
bands 905 through 3000 are on 1/2 octave frequencies.

I would like to mention that this is a state of the art design. No other pedal on the market, that I am aware of comes close.
It uses a constant Q topology which allows you to get the tone you are looking for quickly."


In a follow up email Tony gave this advice:
"The best education will come from using the Bass 10. As an excersize, start with all the bands flat, listen to each band, individually by boosting it a lot, maybe even all the way, to hear what that band does to the tone. Return the band to center and then do the next band. Take your time. Repeat the process. This is the best way to learn how each band affects the tone. I think you will be amazed and enlightened....One thing to keep in mind is, it is one thing to adjust your tone with just yourself, it is another thing to adjust your tone so it fits well "in the mix" when other instruments are playing too. This is a tip that many musicians have a hard time learning, but, the professional studio players know very well."

I am thinking that the Bass 10 would work perfectly in the effects loop to finely sculpt the pre-amped signal to the speaker cab(s) and to the mix/room/environment. 8)

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:42 pm
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Rock Star
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I found this from Empress Effects: http://www.empresseffects.com/paraeq.html# I'm not interested in their pedal but rather this intel from their owner's manual :arrow:
Bass Guitar

30Hz – 80Hz: The sub-bass region. Be careful when boosting in this
range; your speakers might not be happy if you boost too much.

80Hz – 150Hz: The bass region. Boost and cut in this region to
change the amount of bass in your sound.

150Hz – 500Hz: If your bass sounds too muddy, try cutting in this
region. If it needs a little warmth, try boosting in this region.

500Hz – 900Hz: Boosting in this region can add mid-range growl to
your tone. Cutting in this region can make things clean and pristine.

900Hz – 3kHz: Boosting in this region can bring out attack. Cutting in
this region can help create a rounder tone.

Above 3kHz: Cutting can bring down the noise without much effect
on the signal. Boosting can add a sense of air and space.

Here's an informative link that deals with EQ as it pertains to bass in the recording studio :arrow: http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:01 am
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Rock Star
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:arrow: Tone Is In The Fingers!


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2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:32 am
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Tone Is In The Soul Of The Musician

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2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Tonequest: Bass Frequency Range & EQ Sculpting
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:17 am
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Color me joyfully delirious! I finally broke down and ordered a Whirlwind Bass Ten graphic EQ, and man let me tell you this box rocks! Yes they’re expensive and I put off buying one for almost two years. What a maroon!
I plugged it up yesterday evening between my Jazz and Rumble 75 combo mostly as just a test to see if everything was working properly. Man was it ever! The frequency bands are perfectly chosen for electric bass guitar. I love tone sculpting and this is the very best graphic EQ I’ve ever used. Quick; easy, and intuitive I dialed in a huge grand piano tone that just ripped. Unfortunately I had to restrain my exuberance and shut down for the night.
About mid-morning I set up my Rumble 350 head and one of my Rumble 112 Neo cabs. This time I ran the Bass Ten through the effects loop in order to tone sculpt the pre-amped bass signal. The Bass Ten is dead quiet with 0 distortion. My 350 was set up with my favorite stage tone which is a very full and wide ranging. I plugged in my Jazz and just kicked in the Bass Ten with the very same setting form last night, and man alive! I was floored by the richness of tone. I tweaked some more and got the bottom nice and tight and fully defined. No Mud. No Flab. No Sludge. I like very meaty mids with lots of growl & snarl. So easy it’s not funny, but to be fair my Jazz has tons of great sounding mids to begin with. Now they’re better. I like highs that are smooth and soaring - crystal clear with a bit of bark/spank. Got ‘em!
Then it was time to hook up my Precision Assault Bass strung in GHS Precision flats with all the powers of darkness. All in the world I had to do was to turn off the tweeter and put the three high bands back flat. The rest I left the same and it was GLORIOUS! The attack was like Patton’s 3rd Army and the midrange was dark meat for days. Just enough highs for close aerial support. I couldn’t help but kick in the Rumbles’ Overdrive for a full frontal assault. The charge was successful and battle for better bass tone is won.

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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