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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:51 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
You know what? I can actually see where a studio owner/producer/engineer would say precisely that. These cabs have a very narrow range mid to lower mid frequency response with little acoustic artifacts. It would be a very predictable studio cab, always sounding mediocre making it quite easy to record it. Roll off the mic preamp mids and lows a dab and presto, you get a mediocre controlled vanilla tone.

Studio engineers love predictable easily controlled recording setups. I honestly see their point of view on this because no matter how the player adjusts the amp EQ it is not going to respond to anything but low or mid EQ changes. Studio guys just love limiting tonal options because it makes their lives easier in the booth and this would be one of the least responsive guitar cabs on the planet to any upper mid or treble EQ changes. From their point of view it is a "good" guitar cab!

To these same people the evolution of electric bass amps stopped in 1960! From their point of view the Ampeg B-15 is the best bass amp ever invented. Few players would say that with a straight face though. Yes it is a solid, reliable amp but the tonal options and volume are similarly limited making recording them predictably an easy setup.


The only issue with that is mic placement......where do you put it?

Immediately in front of one speaker only?

Not recommended due to the proximity and firing direction of the other three drivers......a sure way to capture boatloads of intermodulation distortion.

Five meters in front of the cab, directly centered to capture the total wave emanating from the baffle?

I don't think the gentleman's studio is that large.

As well, this enclosure's frequency bandwidth likely tops out at 3200 Hz. With a guitar, that's a whole helluva lot of nuanced highs and harmonic overtones that will be lost to deliberate attenuation. If a totally sterile tone is the objective I suppose such a scenario is desirable. However, having worked periodically in a studio myself I think a single-speaker cab (either infinite baffle or bass-reflex) offers the engineer a more consistent set of parameters to work with. I usually rely on a '65 Princeton Reverb with its single 10" speaker, miked offset at the front and (occasionally) from the rear.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:11 pm
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Thank you very much guy's for your really valuable opinions!
I totally have respect for the knowledge you own but we're a little off-topic cause the issue is HOW TO BUILD THIS "MUDDY/PREDICTABLE" CAB and not "HOW TO DISCOURAGE ME FROM BUILDING IT" :lol:

No offence but no matter what I'll try to build the exact copy or in fact a scaled version of it, just for fun of making it.

I've already found a helpful person who'll measure the cab for me.
I'll let you know about progress...

Cheers!
Tho

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Last edited by Tho Valesky on Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:19 pm
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I know *a little bit* about building repro Fender cabs......

Image

But I've never had the occasion to try something like you envision.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:37 pm
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Ok, let's make one thing clear - I have no doubt and I'm not questioning no ones professional approach to the subject or skills.
The cab you've made looks really awsome and pro-made. When I'll finish my job I'll post the pics! :)

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:16 pm
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If I ever run across any internal photos of a Bassman 100 cab illustrating how the bracing and the baffles fit together, I'll try to get them to you.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:28 am
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Retroverbial wrote:

The only issue with that is mic placement......where do you put it?

Immediately in front of one speaker only?

Not recommended due to the proximity and firing direction of the other three drivers......a sure way to capture boatloads of intermodulation distortion.

Five meters in front of the cab, directly centered to capture the total wave emanating from the baffle?

I don't think the gentleman's studio is that large.

As well, this enclosure's frequency bandwidth likely tops out at 3200 Hz. With a guitar, that's a whole helluva lot of nuanced highs and harmonic overtones that will be lost to deliberate attenuation. If a totally sterile tone is the objective I suppose such a scenario is desirable. However, having worked periodically in a studio myself I think a single-speaker cab (either infinite baffle or bass-reflex) offers the engineer a more consistent set of parameters to work with. I usually rely on a '65 Princeton Reverb with its single 10" speaker, miked offset at the front and (occasionally) from the rear.

Arjay


It would sound pretty bland from about any angle when used for guitar. Yes as I mentioned it has a very narrow frequency response which is why I can see a studio engineer liking it. I was going to say a Princeton or Deluxe would be much better myself. As a general rule I've found that bass cabs don't make good guitar cabs. There are exceptions like the 59 Bassman combo which is a better guitar amp than bass amp. I can't see any reason for parking one of these big boxes in a studio, even for bass.

Tho Valesky obviously is going ahead on it, so good luck with the project!


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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:48 am
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brotherdave wrote:
I can't see any reason for parking one of these big boxes in a studio, even for bass.


+1

Wait until he tries to load it into a vehicle and haul it somewhere!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:31 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
I can't see any reason for parking one of these big boxes in a studio, even for bass.


+1

Wait until he tries to load it into a vehicle and haul it somewhere!

:lol:

Arjay


Actually I myself can't wait to try! :)

PS:
got reply from Fender:

"Unfortunately I have no production information regarding this cabinet so it must have been a pretty short lived product. On any of the cabinets from that time period there were no specifics as far as dimensions, power handling, speaker components or really much of anything for that matter.

I wish I could me of more help but we only have what was passed along from those years.

Best Regards"

So... they don't know anything as I thought. Luckily I found this helpful guy who'll measure it for me! :)

Cheers,
Tho

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:03 pm
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Tho Valesky wrote:
PS: got reply from Fender:

"Unfortunately I have no production information regarding this cabinet so it must have been a pretty short lived product. On any of the cabinets from that time period there were no specifics as far as dimensions, power handling, speaker components or really much of anything for that matter.

I wish I could me of more help but we only have what was passed along from those years.

Best Regards"


It's remarkable that those of us who've been around for awhile know more about the history of older Fender products than the fellow you spoke with who's actually employed by FMIC for this very purpose. He should be working as a product consultant for Sara Lee -- not as a representative of the world's largest musical instrument manufacturing conglomerate.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:39 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
It's remarkable that those of us who've been around for awhile know more(...)


With all due respect I have to disagree beacuse I - a noobie in an old Fender cabinets (never had one) after searchin' a few forums for less than few days - know more that Mr. X whose name I intentionally omitted in my previous post cause I think it's a shame that he earns money for "not knowing anything" and not trying to help a fan of company he's employed at :|

Regards,
Tho

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:42 pm
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I think the support rep tried to help however they just don't have the info. We are talking about nearly 40 years ago. The cab was made for several years. It wasn't exactly a short run. We actually are first tier support I think. LOL


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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:48 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
We actually are first tier support I think. LOL


So when's payday, BD?

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:03 am
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Let the appreciation and the admiration of your knowledge from the rest of this forum members be the most precious payment for you guy's! 8)

Cheers to you!

Tho

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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:06 am
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a former band of mine actually toured with a pair of these big old pyramid 4x12's. i had my speakers swapped with celestion greenbacks... which helped push the lower mids into more of an upper mid territory. combined with a tele and a bassman, i think they're great cabs! the bass player had the original oxfords in them... and the speaker breakup was excellent sounding... super dirty, woody tones. unfortunately, the bracing is subpar at best... and the baffles rattled apart after a few years. could be shoddy construction methods... could be the heavy bass tones... could be the fact that we toured with these things strapped to the top of a station wagon haha...

i'll check out the dimensions and the bracing tomorrow after work. as far as i recall, the only braced portion was the center strip... the rest was merely glued into place. but i'll give it a look and see what's going on under there.

in the case of the cab we used for bass, i found that some strips of fiberglass across the corners did a great job of ceasing any rattling and reinforced the structure of it nicely.


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Post subject: Re: Bassman Pyramid Cabinet 412
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:07 pm
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Any chance you can shoot and post some pics, Joe?

I'd love to have some for my archives.

Arjay

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