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Post subject: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:02 am
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The assertion here is that the Rumble 350 power amp is by B&O and is the very same as a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 and the Aguilar Tone Hammer

"This is a new Fender 350 watt head I bought on a whim, but I simply have too much gear and need to trim down. It is like new and never left my house-in the original box with padded gig bag and manual. It has a Bang & Olufsen power amp module (just like Genz Benz and Aguilar Tone Hammer) and sounds phenomenal. The perceived volume is better than the Shuttle 6.0, IMO, which is rated at higher wattage. The distortion channel is blendable and you can add just a hint of grind with it. Fender gets an A+ for this five pound class D amp"

True?
or
False?

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:54 pm
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True. Both the 125ASX2 and the 250ASX2 will put out roughly 500 watts. Fender, Eden, G-B, Aguilar, G-K -- they all use Icepower modules in their lightweights. The Icepower line is very VERY good. I'm certain this is the primary reason for Fender's ability to go to a 5-year warranty.

This is not a good time to be a power amplifier designer. ;-)

Hope this helps.

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 pm
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craig.p wrote:
True. Both the 125ASX2 and the 250ASX2 will put out roughly 500 watts. Fender, Eden, G-B, Aguilar, G-K -- they all use Icepower modules in their lightweights. The Icepower line is very VERY good. I'm certain this is the primary reason for Fender's ability to go to a 5-year warranty.

This is not a good time to be a power amplifier designer. ;-)

Hope this helps.


Oh Yeah! That helps a whole lot :!: Yes it does indeed. Thanks Much Bass Bro :)

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:07 am
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Where did you find out about this? I'm curious to know since I have a 350 (combo version, at least) and it's interesting to know such little tidbits.

I wish I wasn't such an electronics Luddite to where I knew what a 125ASX2 or Icepower module actually is. I guess I'm going to be attempting some research because this peaked my curiosity. I've always wanted to study electronics, or amp repair and construction, drum machines, keyboards, and whatever else you can make noise with that plugs in, but I never went through with it. It would be nice to actually look at one of those schematics and really know what it means. I did take an electronics course in the 9th grade in high school, but that was in 1984, and I never continued it, unfortunately.

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:32 pm
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Hmmm interesting,....... & have you been to Genz Benz website lately?? they still have the current catalogue as 2012 & the most recent piece of news in their news section in from August 2012,.......now that Fender is done with SWR they're now powering down Genz Benz,.....& probably using some Genz Benz Shuttle features (or will using them) in Fender amps.
I don't for sure but I wouldn't be surprised..


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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:36 pm
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It's been a while since I've been there, but I noticed they had a new 500 watt combo that either features a 15" or 2x10" speakers and costs around $700 or so.

I'm wondering if they just want to become an amp monopoly by buying out these companies and shutting them down, or it's just bad economy?

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:53 pm
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CPL wrote:
I'm wondering if they just want to become an amp monopoly by buying out these companies and shutting them down, or it's just bad economy?


I think it's a bit of both,.... Fender buys these companies to eliminate competition & then eventually slows down advertising & new products being brought to market for the company they bought & they slowly sell off the product they have in stock ...all the while Fender is promoting & pushing their own product,.....then the company they bought doesn't have new product for the new year,......& no new product to promote at Naam, then slowly we hear less about the Amp or guitar company that Fender own & eventually Fender lets it sit on the shelf until they decide what to do with it...... Sad,....Very Sad.. :(


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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:47 pm
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Yeah, that looks like what happened to Sunn. Although, it looks like Fender copied the Sunn amps with some of those early Pro amps. If you compare, it looks like they just replaced the name badge and it's the same design.

I suppose not having something to show at NAAM can be bad for a brand, considering the amount of competition and products out there. It could be easy to fall off the radar and disappear. Remember Tacoma? That was another one that Fender bought out and it seems like they shut down. I thought their design was rather innovative with the side projection hole. Now there's a company called Boulder Creek that has a port on top so you can hear it better. I never seen one in the flesh or played one, though.

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:14 am
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CPL wrote:
Yeah, that looks like what happened to Sunn. Although, it looks like Fender copied the Sunn amps with some of those early Pro amps. If you compare, it looks like they just replaced the name badge and it's the same design.


Yes I forgot to mention Sunn,... the most recent incarnation of Sunn was The Fender Bassman 300 that was discontinued earlier this year & you're right they look identicle except for the fact that they have different badges......& yes it's sad what's happened to Tacoma .......here's a list of the companies that Fender owns:
http://www.fender.com/brands/


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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:50 pm
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I remember the 1200 watt one, too. Then they got rid of that and came out with the newer Pro stuff, which also looks like they got rid of. I had a feeling that the 300 Pro wouldn't be around for long after the new Bassman amp came out, since it's 300 watt tube, as well. I was surprised about the other Pro amps, though. But then again, I shouldn't be considering the state of things these days.

I went to the Tacoma site and it just had a picture of a forest and it said "We're seasoning the wood." Come to think about it, I went there awhile back and it was the same thing. Who knows what is going on with that? Are they going to revive it, or just let it rot?

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:41 am
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CPL wrote:
I went to the Tacoma site and it just had a picture of a forest and it said "We're seasoning the wood." Come to think about it, I went there awhile back and it was the same thing. Who knows what is going on with that? Are they going to revive it, or just let it rot?

Fender will let it sit on a shelf & they might use some of the features of the shelved items for their own Fender product, they're essentially limiting or eliminating the competition.


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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:53 am
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That explains why that thing is so dang loud. Louder than my 450 Watt Ampeg SVT III Pro.
Now the 350 combo, are those 2x10 speakers really adequate for all that power? Is the speaker limitations the reason they spec the combo at 350 watts instead of 500?


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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:52 am
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I know of no combo's internal drivers that are capable of handling its amp's full power or even half of it at the very low end. (Welcome to the world small, ported cabs.)

The only exception in my experience was an old Kay amp I had in the '60s. 4 watts to an 8" driver. I tried everything I could to blow that speaker. Forget about it.

Anyway, my guess is that 350 combo's driver pair presents an 8 ohm load to the amp, which would throttle its output. Could be 16-ohm drivers in parallel or 4-ohm drivers in series. I would say it's a wise move, though it's still not safe to use full power, unless Fender spec'd those Eminence drivers to be so inefficient that they act like power soaks, but even then there's a risk at the very low end where the cab runs below its cutoff frequency and the drivers are running in free air.

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:34 am
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I know that combo can crank pretty loud, the couple times I turned it up. Time will tell how the speakers will hold up. I've heard people playing a low B through them without any issue, so I suppose they're pretty good. I have my bass knob set in the middle (which I suppose would be flat) and I get pretty good bass response out of it. I haven't really ran it though it's paces live yet, but I will soon. They say it's wired 4 ohms and I know for a fact that there isn't a speaker jack on it for an extension, so who knows how the thing is set up. I just know it does a pretty good job, so far.

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Post subject: Re: Who Knows If This Is True?
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:04 am
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> I know for a fact that there isn't a speaker jack on it for an extension

Thanks, CPL. That's the piece I wasn't sure of. If that thing's actually wired 4 ohms, though, then they're allowing that amp's max design output to hit that pair of 10s. Frankly that scares the crap out of me, unless we're talking very inefficient drivers. Nice thing about all these new lightweight power amps is that you can get away with using inefficient drivers these days because power is so cheap. I'm wondering if it's actually cheaper now to use a higher-powered amp section with cheaper (less-efficient) drivers than it is to use a lower-powered amp section with premium (highly-efficient) drivers. In other words, the former configuration would "net out" more profitable than the second.

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