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Post subject: Re: Fender Rumble 30 into mixer?
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:34 am
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That's an odd coincidence because so does my brother!

Try using the LINE OUT on the amp since it has one because the impedance and signal level might be friendlier to the sub-mixer input than the effects send. Actually I'd try both. Amps are different and one may sound better than the other on some amps while on other amps you'll hear no difference. I'd always use the XLR output on any amp that has one.

Answer 1. If you keep all cables fairly short you can use standard instrument cables instead of TRS-3 cables unless it causes a problem. Standard instrument cables of reasonably good quality under 20 feet should work fine, if everything (including the main PA mixer) is powered from the same power circuit you'll have no ground loop issues and buying balanced cables unnecessary. Try using just standard instrument cables first.

Answer 2. If you have a direct box already you can plug instrument into the direct box and run an XLR to XLR cable from the direct box to your sub-mixer microphone input. However you can also just plug both instruments directly into a mixer using just decent instrument cables. Direct boxes are beneficial on high impedance sources that require long cable runs in front on a preamp such as to a sound board 50 to 100 feet away. They convert a high impedance signal to low impedance for long cable runs, but do nothing to improve tone. Since you are going right to the preamp from the instrument a DI box is an unnecessary complication, additionally there are some really crumby DI boxes especially in the entry level class and these will actually make your instrument sound worse than plugging it in directly to the sub-mixer. If the instrument is active (meaning it has a battery in it) the signal will probably sound better bypassing a cheap direct box and just plugging directly into the sub-mixer. An exception would be the Sans Amp which has special preamp voicing or effects like reverb/chorus that is very complimentary for a guitar. You mentioned the Sans Amp in a previous post, so I thought you had it already. You can also plug the guitar directly into the mixer, no direct box. It won't be as good as a Sans Amp tonal control or effects but it will work. (Some mixers come with built in effects like reverb/chorus/compression etc, but they often are not as good as guitar specific effects because they are designed with vocals in mind, not guitars or mandolins.) The Art MP you have already has a tube in it which can make some instruments sound better and some sound worse. I don't think a tube preamp is all that beneficial for an acoustic-electric. If I was going to use the Art tube preamp anywhere in this setup I'd use it between the electric bass and the bass combo amp to thicken the electric bass tone and add some tube warmth to it. Some bassists actually use an Art MP specifically for that with an all solid state amp! Most amps built for electric acoustic instruments such as your Martin & electric mandolin are all solid state hi-fi type amps, which sound about the same as plugging directly into your sub-mixer, however the high end electric-acoustic amps also have instrument specific effects like reverb and chorus. In the absence of a Sans Amp the individual tone controls on each sub-mixer channel (bass/mid/treble) will be adequate to get both the mandolin and Martin EQ'd up so they sound reasonably good. With the Martin especially I'd look toward adding an acoustic-electric amp emulator eventually but you may find you can get by just fine without it indefinitely. You might want to demo a mixer with built in effects to see how they interact with your Martin.

SUMMARY. I'd keep the initial setup as simple as possible. (KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid.) If you keep the cable runs short (under 20 ft each) in front of the sub-mixer using good quality instrument cables, then you can plug the two un-amped instruments directly into your personal sub-mixer without any DI boxes. You can use a standard instrument cable from the bass combo line output to the sub-mixer line input also.

All you need for the initial setup is a power strip on the same circuit as the main PA, the sub-mixer, a standard instrument cable from the sub-mixer out to the PA main mixer channel input, standard instrument cables for the 3 instruments and one instrument cable from the amp LINE OUT/EFFECTS SEND to the sub-mixer input. (That is 5 instrument cables total.) That is all. Anything else you add is up to you but I'd set up the mandolin and acoustic direct into the mixer first and add anything else beyond that only if needed or desired. I honestly don't think direct boxes would be all that beneficial with such short instrument cable runs and actually could the tonally detrimental.

Get the levels balanced and the EQ set on your sub-mixer and either mark them with tiny pieces of yellow colored Mystik or 3M 471 tape, or make paper notes on each setting for each channel and switch. Cutting tiny little pieces of yellow tape into arrow shape and sticking them on the sub-mixer to mark the settings is a time tested way to get the mixer reset to the ideal settings quickly after moving it. That way when you move from gig to gig setup is fast because inevitably about every knob is going to move. Alternately you can take a photo with your cellphone of the sub-mixer's ideal settings for quick reference when setting up at gigs, etc and review them, but little pointers made out of yellow tape are way faster and simpler. The Mystik and 3-M 471 brands stays stuck on really good and won't leave a lot of residue when you remove the arrows or move them around to adjust the setup.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Rumble 30 into mixer?
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:04 pm
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Fantastic - I'm picking up a mini mixer this weekend.

I really appreciate all the time, energy and education - I'm feeling confident about the setup - and playing will a lot more enjoyable without the extra setup, guesswork and debugging problems.

Regards,

Steve.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Rumble 30 into mixer?
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:09 pm
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So how did it all shake out?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Rumble 30 into mixer?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:01 am
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okay - sorry for the long delay in answering. I purchased a mini-mixer...and here is the configuration.

1. Bass goes into DI Box - DI box outputs to AMP and to MiniMixer.
2. Mandolin & guitar also go into minimixer
3. Mini-mixer outputs to master mixer.

this is working GREAT - and is economical!!!

thanks for all the help.


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