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Post subject: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:47 pm
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This isn't directly a Fender question... I'm a relatively new bassist and haven't had too much luck with the series of Ampeg solid state combo amps I've tried... so, I have a two part question:

1. Should I drop the solid state in favor of the tube amp?; and if not,
2. How do I get a warmer sound out of the solid state?

Thanks!

V/r,
Mike

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:25 pm
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I think most of the newer Ampeg amps, which don't sound bad, are made in China. I have no real knowledge of the Asian electronics...but I'm guessing they aren't as good...and probably break down more often. If I was set on an Ampeg..I'd make sure it was an older model. I also read somewhere on here about the solid state Ampeg watts aren't power rated the same as other companies.

I prefer solid state for bass because it's almost like a natural compression for my playing. You're bouncin' all over the signal with tubes. Maybe change to a bigger speaker size(like a 15' or 18') for some warmth.


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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:27 pm
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As a tube guy (guitarist) I recommend staying with a solid-state platform. Tube amps are somewhat demanding and can be cantankerous beasts at times. OTOH, contemporary bass rigs using CMOS, FET, or OP-AMP technology are generally lighter, more powerful, and more reliable. Two of the greatest bass amps in history (Sunn's Coliseum and Acoustic's 360 and 370) were transistorized and far less temperamental than Ampeg's original SVT or Fender's 400PS, both of the latter using tubes. There's an ongoing discussion elsewhere within this section of the forum where contemporary bass rigs are mentioned and their various features debated. It bears reading for someone in your situation.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:47 pm
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Thank you both for the input, and I'll check the thread you mentioned. I started with an Ampeg BA-108 bass combo, tried an Ampeg BA112 50W Single 12 Bass Combo and a Fender Rumble 150 150w, and finally settled on the Ampeg BA115 Bass Amp Series Combo100w 15" speaker.

What I don't like is the thin, cold sound I get out of it and that it clips out... If I can do something for the warmth aspect, I'll be happy to keep it, in which case I'll be able to focus on a tube amp for my six strings.

Thanks again!

mjc

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:09 pm
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SUPER BASSMAN, BABY, ALL THE WAY!

That'll blow your shorts outta th' water.

Yep.

It will.

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:21 pm
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I'll keep that in mind Linnin! Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:38 pm
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mjcolucci7 wrote:
I'll keep that in mind Linnin! Cheers!


HaHaHa! I own and play through a Rumble 75 Combo. I like it and it sounds great. Not just 'for the money' and not just 'for it's size' - Rumbles Rock!

Can't afford Three-Point-Five Grand for a Super Bassman rig??? Well neither could I. Go Rumble Young Man. You'll be glad you did! :D

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:07 pm
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mjcolucci7 wrote:
Thank you both for the input, and I'll check the thread you mentioned. I started with an Ampeg BA-108 bass combo, tried an Ampeg BA112 50W Single 12 Bass Combo and a Fender Rumble 150 150w, and finally settled on the Ampeg BA115 Bass Amp Series Combo100w 15" speaker.

What I don't like is the thin, cold sound I get out of it and that it clips out... If I can do something for the warmth aspect, I'll be happy to keep it, in which case I'll be able to focus on a tube amp for my six strings.

Thanks again!

mjc


Years ago, like 10 years ago, I had an Ampeg BA115. They were still made in the USA then. That thing was remarkable. It had a lot of lushness for a combo, sort of like the Fender Rumble 350...but of course not as loud. The ONLY things I didn't like about it was the weight, the tilt back design and the hiss if you cranked the treble. I would never have said it sounded thin or cold. Either they have really changed or you got a bad one or there is something going on with your instrument that shouldn't be. The style switch on "2" was so much like a B-15 that it was spooky. Your description doesn't sound like the BA115 I had at all.

You should have tried a Rumble 350 2x10 combo. That is the best sounding combo around for the money that I know about right now.

I have owned Ampeg gear since 1971. In that time I've also owned Marshall and Sunn. I kept coming back to Ampeg however I have never bought any offshore made Ampeg gear and probably the Ampeg head I have now is my last. Lots of places that used to carry Ampeg don't even carry it anymore. Wish now I had kept the USA made combo. I'm not paying the premium for the Heritage made in USA series Ampeg gear either. They aren't the same as the old Magnavox or St. Louis Music ones anyway.

The lushness or fuzzy warmth of all-tube bass amps has a steep price. They are costly to buy and also costly to maintain. I used to buy one and play it till I felt the tubes were wearing down and trade. Can't do that anymore since the tube stuff costs now what a car cost then. Don't want to move tube heads anyway because they are too heavy for an old man.

Probably should mention that I do not think tubes today are as durable or long-lived as they were 30 years ago. They are almost all made in China or Russia now. It is not uncommon at all to find a working vintage head (CBS era) with all original tubes still in it! I really don't think that is possible with today's tubes. You can buy USA vintage tubes working good on eBay. I really don't think that is possible in 30 years with the tubes of today either.

Anyway, the HYBRID bass heads sound reasonably close to a tube bass head warmth wise. Hybrid amps have a single or dual 12AX7 tube preamp with a solid-state power amp. (12AX7's are reasonably cheap. The Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH tube is actually very good sounding. I believe it is really made in Russia by Sovtek.) I think the tube preamp into a solid state power amp is an excellent arrangement for a bass head.

However hybrid setups are not typically available in combos with a few exceptions. The catch with them is that the tube has about a 12 month life expectancy. So if you buy a hybrid, get one that it is easy to get to the tube to change it out and it is probably even more important to get one that has a switch allowing you to bypass the tube preamp for a solid state preamp in case the tube goes unexpectedly. (When it goes out it will almost always be unexpectedly.) Some of the Carvin bass heads have such an arrangement being a hybrid head with a switch to go from tube preamp to solid state preamp. The ability to switch to a solid state preamp would be a must-have feature for me to buy a hybrid bass amp.

The now discontinued Bassman 1200 Pro head was a hybrid. Some of the now discontinued TV series Bassman combos were hybrids also. I don't think Fender is currently making a hybrid head or combo. Hybrid tech is more expensive than all solid-state and right now it is all about value and low price and how many watts per dollar they can ship out. Some of the Ampeg combos were hybrids and so was the SVT-III, but I don't know about the Ampeg lineup at this time for sure. I think the SVT-III is still hybrid but I don't know about which combos are still hybrid. They've had a few models come and go since they started offshore production.


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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:33 am
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Brother Dave, thanks - as always you are a wealth of knowledge! I'll try messing about with the Style switch and see if I can't coax anything warmer out of it that way.

Is there an effects pedal I should consider that'll help add the warmth I'm looking for, or am I heading in the wrong direction w/ that?

There is a shop up the street that has a fairly large collection of what appear to be older amps, I've usually skipped over them because they have a tendency to leave them (at least the guitars) in very a crappy condition and over charge for them because they are "vintage". Maybe I should take some time to look into those a bit closer.

Thanks again!

V/r,
Mike

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:30 am
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> Is there an effects pedal I should consider that'll help add the warmth
> I'm looking for, or am I heading in the wrong direction w/ that?

You are definitely NOT headed in the wrong direction. A Tech21 Sansamp Bass Driver DI (typically referred to simply as a "BDDI") will do just what you want. There are other permutations of the BDDI by Tech21; at least one other has a midrange control which some find useful. I've had a BDDI for years and have lost count how many times it's saved me from a clinically-dry sounding amp. I rarely use its tone controls (they're in totally the wrong places on the frequency map, IMO); it's the drive and blend controls that comprise its magic. Fat, thick, tubey goodness -- faked in solid state circuits, of course, but done incredibly well.

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:39 am
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Thanks Craig! I'll be on the lookout!

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Post subject: Tube v. Solid St. - Is the Answer Electro-Harmonix?
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:12 am
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Would the Electro-Harmonix Classics LPB 2ube Stereo Tube Preamp Guitar Effects Pedal fix things?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... ects-pedal

Thoughts?

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid St. - Is the Answer Electro-Harmonix?
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:43 am
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mjcolucci7 wrote:
Would the Electro-Harmonix Classics LPB 2ube Stereo Tube Preamp Guitar Effects Pedal fix things?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... ects-pedal

Thoughts?


meh :|

You'd be much better off with this instead :arrow:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProdigyHD/
8)

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:05 pm
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Yikes!!! Now that's a bit out of my skill level (and budget) to be off effective use :(

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Post subject: Re: Tube v. Solid State
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:03 am
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I re-read your initial post and really you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. The old saying that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear also rings true in your case.

Ditch the china-peg.

Assess your need. Are you playing in a band or jamming live with a drummer? If not is that your goal? Are you recording? Personal practice only?

What is your price range? What can you afford?

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