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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:46 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Players wallowing in the mud are often there because they lack skill or confidence and are hoping to cover at least some of their mistakes, shortcomings and lack of actual talent in thick gooey mud.




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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:43 am
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It's also used in three piece bands, or bands using it as fill-in sound. It also takes the place of fill-in when a keyboard isn't there.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:04 am
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
It's also used in three piece bands, or bands using it as fill-in sound. It also takes the place of fill-in when a keyboard isn't there.


I couldn't disagree more! A bucket of mud never but NEVER takes the place of a keyboard. It doesn't even take the place of a bass player much less a keyboard. If you are toneless and wallowing in the mud you are a HOG and not a musician. Take that one to heart.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:23 am
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Location: In this country town, where the laughter sounds...
You haven't been around much.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:24 pm
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Slightly OT, but I went to an open mic one night and sat in for a few songs. The bass amp was some Peavey tank from the '80s. It had 5 tone controls. They were all up full. :roll: God only knows what sort of crap tone was coming out of that thing when the last player was plugged in. Or what he played like. No wonder sound techs like dry/pre DI feeds. At least a dry DI doesn't come pre-screwed.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:12 pm
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I like a newer, burpier sounding amp, which has a lot to do with the speaker's age. It better not make any noise, even while standing in front of it with a bass. A good polarity switch is also a big request.

I like a muddy tone sometimes..but it needs to have a bounce to it. Anybody ever listen to Sir Paul McCartney's isolated Beatle's tracks?


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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:10 pm
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Dalembic wrote:
I like a newer, burpier sounding amp, which has a lot to do with the speaker's age. It better not make any noise, even while standing in front of it with a bass. A good polarity switch is also a big request.

I like a muddy tone sometimes..but it needs to have a bounce to it. Anybody ever listen to Sir Paul McCartney's isolated Beatle's tracks?


Not yet. If you provide a link or two, I'd love to give it a listen.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:49 am
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Arguably one of the very best bass players alive today. No Mud Here. In fact this is some of the very best bass tone I have ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Elszepr2SA

Here's a killer version of the classic "So What?" Fabulous live bass tone all the way!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3LkSXA-Ts

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:46 pm
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I think another issue is a lot of bassists and guitarists, is some of them do not know how to EQ their amps. I think they must be tone deaf or something. You don't know how many guitarists I've played with in the past that I was so tempted to adjust their settings. Then again, most of them were hacks, so it is a moot point in the end. As for bass, the one thing I think sounds like total $@! and I find totally obnoxious is slap bass. I friggin' hate it with a passion. If you like it, that's cool, I'm not going to begrudge anyone's personal playing preferences, but I won't be around to listen. I want to get a t-shirt with a picture of a thumb and a red circle with a line going diagonally through it. :P

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:02 pm
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CPL wrote:
I think another issue is a lot of bassists and guitarists, is some of them do not know how to EQ their amps. I think they must be tone deaf or something. You don't know how many guitarists I've played with in the past that I was so tempted to adjust their settings. Then again, most of them were hacks, so it is a moot point in the end.


That's the whole point of this thread really, CPL, and I do agree. Especially with your observation "most of them were hacks, so it is a moot point..." So the true point here being that wallowing in the deep thick mire of toneless mud does indeed indicate that you are in most instances at talentless hack.

Leo Fender thought that bass players should use their thumbs to pluck with. I do, and much like Geddy Lee use a kind of 'hook' approach with thumb; index, and middle fingers all together to get a lot of speed and texture.

I pick when I want or need that sound and level of attack. {GASP! HORRORS!}

Slap actually started with double bass violins in order to get some volume out of those big ol' dog houses. Then Larry Graham refined and augmented the technique for Fender Electric Bass Guitars. Marcus Miller, however is a master of the Fender Electric Bass Guitar in all its complex aspects. No matter what amp/rig I've heard him play through his tone is uniquely his alone. If Jaco were alive today, he'd be taking slap lessons from Marcus Miller, as should we all. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:06 pm
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I think I know what really bothers me about slap bass, it's the way I think it's way overdone and badly applied in most cases. I think I could name a couple of people that play that technique (like Larry Graham, for example) and do it quite well. They use it as a rhythmic playing technique, not just something to do to seem "cool" or flashy. It reminds me of a who can piss highest on a tree contest, with some people I've heard.

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:40 pm
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CPL wrote:
I think I know what really bothers me about slap bass, it's the way I think it's way overdone and badly applied in most cases. I think I could name a couple of people that play that technique (like Larry Graham, for example) and do it quite well. They use it as a rhythmic playing technique, not just something to do to seem "cool" or flashy. It reminds me of a who can piss highest on a tree contest, with some people I've heard.


+ 1 Ga-Zillion on the Slap-Pissing contest. Perhaps the next thread should be about 'Tweeter-Peeters' on how you'd be better off slapping your mother than your bass. Stay Tuned! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:06 pm
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There is no way I would denigrate the slapping technique. Any technique done well is delicious. With that said, I began playing bass in 1969. All of my "teachers" did not slap. Stanley Clarke came along later and impressed me. He was not one of the people who inspired me to pick up the bass because they came before him. Jack Casady, John Entwhistle, Paul MacCartney, Jack Bruce, Tim Bogert, James Jameson, Carol Kay and Geezer Butler, to name some. None slapped then and I have not heard any of them slap ever. I tend to fall into that category. I have techniques that allow me to own the bass in my corner of the Universe. Slap is not one of them.

Muddy tone sucks. It robs everybody of hearing what is being played by the bass. One can have a very deep sound and still have distinction between notes with a rich tonal palette. Some sound engineers have odd ideas about the tonal spectrum bass players are supposed to occupy. One of the reason many of us lugged big rigs around. The ability to insert spectrum into the mix. One often needed a trusted pair of ears in the audience. I brought my student. :D

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:54 pm
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modwiz wrote:
Stanley Clarke came along later and impressed me.


+1!

For those unfamiliar with Mr. Clarke, check out "Rock And Roll Jelly" on Y/T (with Jeff Beck as accompaniment on guitar). A real treat.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Good Tone Vs The Mud Bucket
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:10 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
modwiz wrote:
Stanley Clarke came along later and impressed me.


+1!

For those unfamiliar with Mr. Clarke, check out "Rock And Roll Jelly" on Y/T (with Jeff Beck as accompaniment on guitar). A real treat.

Arjay


Plus SC plays a damn mean upright bass. The man just totally smokes, and yes he has great tone. Mud Bucket? Not a chance.

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