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Post subject: SWR
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:42 pm
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I almost put this in 'The Competition' thread, but SWR is owned by FMIC, and isn't really in direct competition with any of Fender's bass amp offerings.

Rumors are rampant that SWR is all but dead, but that isn't the focus of this thread.

This is :arrow: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BlackBeauty/
SWR Black Beauty 350 Watt 115 Combo now just $800 'while they last'. If I needed a combo to play out with, this would certainly rock the gig. It's the only SWR amp Sweetwater offers, and will soon be gone.

I went to Musician's Friend. They had four used SWR bass amps. That's it. Nothing new.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:32 pm
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I've wondered about SWR, too. I've been to their website recently, and it seems like it has that "ghost town" kind of vibe to it. They used to have a mailing list years ago, but no longer. The other FMIC brands have one and it's also interconnected. I found that you can register on Gretsch or Jackson with the same account as you have here.

That seems like a really good deal for that, if you like SWR. It's too bad about the brand, if that's the case of their demise. I wonder if it has to do with price points? Even at that price, you can buy two Rumble 350 combos, which I think sound just as good. Although, time will tell if they have the same reliability.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:09 pm
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I hear ya, CPL!

SWR is a little too 'Hi-Fi' / colorless for me, but still great BIG sound. Love their cabinets though. A friend of mine just picked up one of the last Big Ben (118) cabs. Sad to see the brand go by the wayside.

I like a strongly colored bass amp. The original all tube Bassmans were such beasts as were Sunns and Ampegs. You picked a bass amp according to the sound color you liked best. I always loved Sunn 2000s, just could never afford one. Hard to get too, at least where I lived.

This day and age Fender's Rumble line does it for me. They have a richly textured sonic color I love. Can't wait to see what's in the future.

8)

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:16 pm
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I recall playing through at least two different SWR amps; the original 260 watt (400 w/ext.) Workingman's combo, and the original Redhead before the power upgrade. The Workingman was on a massive discount at Guitar Center because they discontinued the model. It wasn't bad, but it really didn't speak to me. I think the other factor was that Guitar Center's environment was rather annoying at the time, too. There was some metal dude doing his CHUG-CHUG-CHUG thing loudly through a Marshall; a really crappy drummer in another room; and some bonehead who decided to compete with me when I was playing through the amp, by playing some obnoxious slap bass riffs that seemed to almost mimic what I was playing. Meanwhile, I was there to check out gear, not have a pud-pulling contest. :roll:

The Redhead I tried out sometime in the early 90's. It sounded cool, but was ridiculously expensive and I had been only playing for maybe six years at that point. Then again, so were Trace Elliots, and I thought those were the neatest thing since sliced bread. That was the cool thing about stores; sometimes you get to play with stuff you could never hope to afford (I once got to play an Alembic through a Trace Elliot,) unless you were famous or something. I guess that was part of the dream when you start out playing.

I don't think I ever got to play through a Sunn, or even seen one in person. I know Fender owns the name and killed it off a few years ago. In fact, I think the 300 Pro that was around up until the new Super Bassman came out, was a rebadged Sunn amp they had out last. There was that 1200 watt one, too. They still have archives on the site, I think. I have no clue if they were anything similar to the old ones.

Yeah, I'll have to agree with you about the Rumble series. That's what really drew me in. The sound. Then again, I've always loved the sound of Fender amps. It's funny, it's like I've come full circle: I started out on a Fender amp, and now I'm playing on one again. Except, this one is has over ten times the wattage.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:46 pm
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The SWR brand would not be in trouble if it was selling well enough. Nothing like stating the obvious, is there? Another stupidly obvious statement follows. The bass amp market changed in the past 10 years as it has been flooded with new brands, revived brands and inexpensive but powerful Asian built combos/heads/cabs by noted names.

Also there has been a trend toward using smaller yet more powerful amps or even amp emulation into today's subwoofer laden PA arrays. This makes huge stage amps passe' for many players and nothing more than stage decor for others. In short, things changed.

SWR's budget LA Series simply got clobbered by more powerful yet cheaper combos.

Line 6 is another brand that decided the bass market is no longer profitable enough for them. Instead of retooling their bass products Line 6 just eliminated their entire line of bass offerings in total, at least in the USA, to concentrate on guitar products which sell far better.

It's partly the economy, partly competition causing these changes. People now want something fantastic for next to nothing. Many buy online without even hearing the product and instead shop by specs versus price seeking the most value for every cent, which of course is not the ideal way to buy bass amps, but is sadly often how it is being done. For players not living in major cities online shopping is the only option as the mom & pop music stores have closed by the hundreds and buyers can't get their hands on new gear to try out without driving an hour or more. It's the Wal-Mart syndrome.

A currently viable business model for a major mass produced bass amp brand seems to be having huge volume sales on entry level amps to support far weaker sales in the high end pro line gear. The market for brand new high end gear has been terrible lately. Yet to be "respectable" a company needs to offer big powerful stage amps. So in essence Fender's Rumble line makes the Bassman line possible and it seems to be a successful marketing model.

SWR entry level models where big volume sales were needed to keep the brand viable were just not selling well. The SWR LA Series didn't fly out the door.

Fender probably ships one (or less) Bassman head for every 100 Rumble combos it sells. If Bassman was all Fender sold now or if Rumbles were as big a sales turkey as the SWR LA Series, then I'd be concerned about the future of Fender bass amps right now too.

You can lose money on a brand only so long. Instead of cheaping out and hurting a long running brand's well deserved reputation, sometimes it is just better to fold up the tent and "Let It Be," shelving the brand to preserve the legacy and value of the brand name in case it might become viable again in the future. Trashing a legacy brand really does nobody any favors, including owners of the legacy brand's vintage gear. It is far better to shelve the brand than trash it.

Take as a textbook example of how to trash a brand what happened to Rogers. Rogers Drums history goes back to Irish immigrants in the 1840's (not a typo-1840's) with a mass production history that goes back to the 1930's. Rogers ultimately became a top name in drums in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. CBS bought Rogers after buying Fender and moved production from Covington, OH to the Fender Fullerton location. In 1983 CBS sold Fender to today's FMIC and the sale included the Rogers Drums brand. FMIC never resumed production of Rogers Drums post-CBS. After over a decade on the shelf FMIC sold the Rogers Drums brand to Brooks Mays Music in Dallas who proceeded to market an imported beginner level product with the Rogers logo in their stores. The cheap imported drum sets were big sellers even if inferior to any Rogers drum set before then. This tainted the Rogers legacy which up till then was fairly well respected as a pro level brand, even though they had been out of production since 1983 and the CBS era wasn't exactly their high spot in the brand history either. Also in spite of the fact that sales were limited just to Brooks Mays stores, it didn't seem to matter much as the damage to the brand actually was surprisingly immense.

Yamaha bought the Rogers brand about 7 years ago during the Brooks Mays bankruptcy court proceedings with the intent to restore Rogers as a leading pro line. Yamaha has worked on rebuilding Rogers reputation for over 7 years, but what Brooks Mays did to Rogers during their relatively brief ownership might be too much to overcome. The Rogers brand with a history back to the 1800's actually may never recover from a few years of cheaping out the brand.

I do wish Yamaha luck with Rogers. Some great drummers played Rogers back in the day and I'd honestly like to see them make a huge comeback.


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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:19 pm
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Hey BD; A sad, but true accounting of Rogers, a once great drum company.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:46 pm
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That's interesting about Rogers. I remember seeing a Fender contest advert from 1967: http://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/adDetails/109
I wouldn't have minded winning those, even today.

Dave's right about that with SWR. One thing I noticed is that they really jacked the prices on everything a few years ago, and then like you said, with everything else. The Working Pro 400 head was around $649 and the Rumble 350 head is $399, usually. Ampeg has a new 800 watt head for $599 coming out, with the Portaflex series. Time will tell how those will work out, although I've read a lot of praise about the 500 watt model.

Before I bought the Rumble, I was on the fence for almost a year when it was introduced. I often even read this forum before I just decided to sign up to see if anyone had any complaints about it (actually, I've noticed Fender usually has a pretty good rap around here with their gear and people like Dave and the other long-time posters know their $@!&) and the reviews were good. So I threw the dice and so for so good. That's what scared me about Line 6. There were a lot of complaints about things breaking down and whatnot. I know that can happen to anything, but the ratio of it was too high for my taste. I can't afford to take that kind of chance, right now. I'm so broke I can't pay attention. :P

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:13 pm
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SUNN suffered a simular fate to that of Rogers. Genz-Benz is struggling mightily to survive.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:36 pm
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I like the lay out of Genz Benz, but I've never had a chance to try any out. I've noticed they have a new 500 watt combo that's reasonably priced. It comes in 15" and 2x10" configurations, and you can add extra cabs. I didn't realize they were having trouble, too. Then again, it seems like a lot of people are these days.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:33 am
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linnin wrote:
SUNN suffered a simular fate to that of Rogers. Genz-Benz is struggling mightily to survive.


I'd say Sunn is safely shelved for now. The all solid state Hartzell era of Sunn is I think what you are referring to. In that regard yes. FMIC tried to revive the brand with a first rate all tube powerhouse but no dice in the marketplace. There also was no intro/starter Sunn line.

Wondering how the reincarnation of the USA made Acoustics will go. The name has been cheaped out for years, quite successfully and on a huge scale by the Bain Capital owned Guitar Center/Musicians Friend conglomerate. Not sure if it hurt, but probably won't help.


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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:28 am
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Who knows? The 360/361 rig lists for almost $5000, but then again top of the line Ampeg isn't cheap, either. I wish I had that kind of cash for gear. Maybe someday.

I've never tried the budget version, but I generally avoid going to Guitar Center, unless I have no choice. I never tried out the Mark Bass, either for the same reason. Those were the talk of the town a while back, I recall.

I wonder if Sunn will ever see the light of day again?

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:53 am
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I love my SWR Redhead and I don't think I'll ever sell it. Unlike others I feel the bass should not be coloured at all. The Redhead gives me a bigger than life pure clean sound that stands out from the mud. I can hear each vibration of my strings. I'm not a showboat by any means. I play mostly in the pocket like most bassists but I don't sit in the background. My sound brings me out front.

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:03 pm
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CPL wrote:
I like the lay out of Genz Benz, but I've never had a chance to try any out. I've noticed they have a new 500 watt combo that's reasonably priced. It comes in 15" and 2x10" configurations, and you can add extra cabs. I didn't realize they were having trouble, too. Then again, it seems like a lot of people are these days.
I like the lay out of Genz Benz, but I've never had a chance to try any out. I've noticed they have a new 500 watt combo that's reasonably priced. It comes in 15" and 2x10" configurations, and you can add extra cabs. I didn't realize they were having trouble, too. Then again, it seems like a lot of people are these days.


Yes unfortunately Genz Benz is starting to be faded out,.... (now that Fender is done with SWR they're now starting to do do the same to Genz Benz) For those who don't know,..Fender owns Genz Benz.
As most of you know I have an SWR rig,...I love it,... I also think my SWR Headlite & Amplite will out last many of the other D class micro heads out there.

Back in April I bought the last SWR cabiniet that Long & McQuade Music had in it's inventory for all of Canada,..... it's a Golight 4ohm Neo 4x10 cabinet,..... I always wanted one & this was my last chance to get one even though I already Had a SWR Goliath Jr. 2x10 4ohm cabinet & a SWR Workingpro 4x10 4ohm cabinet,...... (the workingpro weights 89lbs & the Golight Neo cab weights 56lbs .... both sound amazing but the Golight is better for the aging back)
I also got a good deal for it ....it's usually $899.00 & I got it for $649.00
Sadly this cabinet was sitting in a corner in the store for well over a year,......
I've also been thinking about getting a back up head in the event that something should happen to my Headlite,... I like the rumble 350 head but am not totally sold on it (at the moment) I'm hoping that Fender comes out with a new version in the fall that might have some extras.
The amps that have my attention at the moment are the GK MB Fusion 800 & the TC Electronic RH750 or I could search for a used Headlite........time will tell.


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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:57 am
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I was looking at the TC Electronic site yesterday. That was another brand that got my interest. In fact, before I decided on getting the Rumble 350, I wanted to get their BG 500 combo with the 15" speaker, but it was no longer available. They apparently still have the 2x10" version listed on their site, but none of the main shops that carry the brand seem to have it available. They just have the head version and the amp you like. It's too bad, since it would have been ideal for my situation. It got pretty decent reviews, too from the magazines. I liked what I've seen and heard from the demos, too.

Sometimes, I've seen the older Workingman's head for sale dirt cheap. Those 400 watt blue ones with the slider EQ.

Speaking of Long & McQuade and Canada, what do you think of Traynor amps?

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Post subject: Re: SWR
Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:55 am
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I would like to get the Ampeg SVT-CL head for the SVT-410HLF cab I've got. But when I play the TC Electronic RH450 head through the 410, the RH450 has the big tube sound with an attitude. 150 More watts, in a smaller package that can be used disconnected from the cab, with a phones jack also, or used as a preamp. Not to bad.

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