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Post subject: The Competition
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:49 pm
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:arrow: I do hope it is OK to discuss bass amps other than Fender. :shock:

The twelve inch woofer has come a long way in the past few years, and I like them. They make for very tidy and compact combo designs. I bought my Rumble 75 for this very reason. Yes, I still love it. :)

Due to the popularity of Fender's Rumble line of bass amps, Peavey has redesigned their once exceedingly wimpy MAX series. Their new 112 combo is now rated at 200 watts! It's got some nice features too, all in a monitor style kickback cab. It's $250 at all the music e-tailers. Same price as the Rumble 75. I am going to play through one the next time I'm in Richmond as there are actual music stores in the capitol city of Virginia.

Another interesting small combo is G-K's new MB112II. Also with a 200 watt rating. $375. I'd also like to play through this one too. Is the G-K's tone really worth 50% more $$$ vs Peavey's MAX 112?

Hartke has a brand new HyDrive 112 combo with 250 watts in a very slick looking kickback cab. $575. It competes directly with Fender owned SWR Working Pro 12. Again is the tone and power worth paying over twice as much? Before going with the Rumble 75 I looked longingly at the SWR Working Pro 12. If I were playing out I would have gotten it on SWR's reputation alone.

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:04 pm
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Just as a side note, from what I can gather from various e-tailers the most popular/best selling bass combo is the Fender Rumble 150, and with good reason, it's just $350 :)

Peavey's new MAX 115 with 300 watts is only $300. Twice as many watts as the Rumble 150 and $50 cheaper. Does it sound better? Just have to play through it and compare. I'll have to call Peavey up and find out where these are being manufactured.

There are plenty of more expensive 15" combos. New Hartke HyDrive 115 @ 250 watts - $630. SWR Working Pro 15 @ 200 watts - $700. And many more offerings in this higher price range.

The 2 X 10" combos are also popular and most of them are plenty powerful, and expensive. The new 20th Anniversary SWR Redhead is almost $1700, but it's a legendary 'Giant Killer' and all around 'King of the Combos'. You can just look at the Rumble 350 and see the Redhead's heritage shining through. SWR's 400 watts vs Rumble's 350, but it's a great bargin at $500.

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:44 pm
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Yeah, I noticed the new Peaveys a couple of weeks ago on some web site. It seems like they might be trying to compete with Fender with those specs and price range. I think I'll stick with Fender, though. I think they have far better tone. Old Peaveys used to be bullet proof and still are running (not sure about the new ones, other than horror stories about the Tour Series when it first came out) but to me, their tone wasn't the greatest. If given a choice between Peavey and Ampeg, I'd pick Peavey, though. That's because I didn't have a great experience with Ampeg and the Peaveys I did have didn't let me down, performance wise.

SWR, from what I've tried was pretty nice, but they are pricey. The GK and Hartkes don't really tweak me, although I have played through the GK 800RB head on a few occasions and it was pretty decent.

I guess what it boils down to for me, is that Fender doesn't have any real competition where these amps are concerned. I'm a total convert. They hit the nail on the head. Then again, I've always liked their tone, but now I'm experienced enough to know to stick with it and not do stupid things like get rid of it for something else that you will regret in the long run.


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:33 pm
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You have to be careful here. You can't go by the name brand anymore. Not once in amp production has Asian outsourcing proved to have been a step up in quality. The Ampeg debacle is a perfect example. Asian outsourcing everything with the Ampeg name on it was a huge mistake and to save the brand Ampeg eventually resumed US production on models for people who wanted ones that would actually work. I still would not be surprised if Ampeg folded.

GK's original MB112 in the metal cab was a real popular amp and by all accounts a winner in a small combo. I'd prefer one of those in good used condition over one of the brand new Asian made ones.

The fact is that some of the Chinese plants make amps for several different brands, much like Fuji-Gen in Japan makes guitars for many brands including Fender. Therefore there is less difference between brands than in the past, other than cosmetics.

I don't think any of these Chinese amps will be around in 35 years like those old mid 70's to 80's Peavey solid state combos and heads. If a Chinese amp lasts through the warranty period consider yourself blessed by the bass gods.

Never buy a new model the first year it comes out either. Give them time to find and fix their mistakes first.

There are some often overlooked used amps out there that are sweet buys, like the USA made Roland DB series which go for cheap around here now. Also now and then I run across a used Polytone bass amp, but less frequently at a real good price. The Fender BXR series of combos was very decent and reliable, but these amps are aging now and the powerful ones are getting hard to find.

If you want a Peavey combo, hit the second hand shops and get a used USA made one. It will probably outlast your car.

I'd rather spend $450 on a used Made In USA bass amp than $350 on a new Asian made one. Just my personal preference.


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:13 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
You have to be careful here. You can't go by the name brand anymore. Not once in amp production has Asian outsourcing proved to have been a step up in quality. The Ampeg debacle is a perfect example. Asian outsourcing everything with the Ampeg name on it was a huge mistake and to save the brand Ampeg eventually resumed US production on models for people who wanted ones that would actually work. I still would not be surprised if Ampeg folded.

GK's original MB112 in the metal cab was a real popular amp and by all accounts a winner in a small combo. I'd prefer one of those in good used condition over one of the brand new Asian made ones.

The fact is that some of the Chinese plants make amps for several different brands, much like Fuji-Gen in Japan makes guitars for many brands including Fender. Therefore there is less difference between brands than in the past, other than cosmetics.

I don't think any of these Chinese amps will be around in 35 years like those old mid 70's to 80's Peavey solid state combos and heads. If a Chinese amp lasts through the warranty period consider yourself blessed by the bass gods.

Never buy a new model the first year it comes out either. Give them time to find and fix their mistakes first.

There are some often overlooked used amps out there that are sweet buys, like the USA made Roland DB series which go for cheap around here now. Also now and then I run across a used Polytone bass amp, but less frequently at a real good price. The Fender BXR series of combos was very decent and reliable, but these amps are aging now and the powerful ones are getting hard to find.

If you want a Peavey combo, hit the second hand shops and get a used USA made one. It will probably outlast your car.

I'd rather spend $450 on a used Made In USA bass amp than $350 on a new Asian made one. Just my personal preference.


+1

Every word the truth.

Preach it, brotherdave!!!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:55 am
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The funny thing was the Ampeg I had was made in the US. It was an SVT3 Pro that I bought new around 1994. I traded in a Fender BXR 300 combo for it, which was a serious mistake. It's funny, they cost around 4 or 5 hundred dollars more now and they're made in China. Go figure.

I was a little, at first, apprehensive about the new Fender because of it being made in China, but so far it's been holding it's own. Time will tell. For the price, it's hard to beat it. Another thing, sadly, the whole "Made In The USA" thing is almost meaningless now, considering even if it's made here, the electronics are most likely outsourced from over there anyway. I think what matters more is good quality control. It would be nice to have made in the USA products, but that's not always financially feasible, unfortunately.

Back in the early 90's, I tried one of those old GK combos about the same time I played though an 800 RB head. It sounded pretty good, but was a little too small for what I needed at the time. Then again, the head I was using was connected to a Sonic 2x18 and 2x10 massive cabinet. That thing was a beast. Talk about some serious bass. I was jamming with this guy I knew who worked in a music store and had all kind of stuff at his rehearsal place. I got a hell of a deal on a USA Fender Jazz Bass at the time.

All I can say is I hope I can get a few years out of this amp. The one thing that gets me is that everything seems to be disposable these days and winds up choking land fills. Of course, that's another rant for another topic.


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:57 am
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Agree with Brother Dave that Ampeg, now better known as 'Asianpeg' has ruined themselves. Notice that Ampeg combos are conspicuous by their absence as are Behringer, and Acoustic/Kustom.

My Rumble 75 was made in South Korea. It's a good little amp. I bought it on Fender's good reputation alone, and today that reputation stands tall.

However: G-K; SWR, and Hartke all have excellent reputations for their bass combos. Peavey not so much. The Tone/Wattage/$$$ value for each offering is in the ear of the beholder.

The purpose of this thread is to encourage free and open discussion. 8)

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2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:38 pm
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I'm not really a fan of Peavey Max, even the American made, well it's just me :lol:
Ampegs (meh)
I've used Hartke live on stage they're like so-so,
SWRs are great, if you play a lot of pop and slap
among them though power is weak, I'd choose a Fender. There's something that I really like about the Rumble and the Bassman

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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:44 pm
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It is absolutely amazing how many good sounding bass amps can be had in $200 to $700 range.

Some people will always go with the very cheapest price per watt. That is a very poor way to make a choice.

Some people will always equate watts with tone. More watts = more tone. I even see this among experienced bass players.

I think the Rumble 75/150/350 are all excellent sounding amps that also give you great value for your dollar.

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2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:26 pm
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Another thing I've noticed about a lot of them is that they look "cheap" or just will fall apart on you after a week. This is what put me off to an amp like Behringer. It wasn't necessarily reviews (I've learned to take a lot of those with a grain of salt, since a lot of musicians can be bone-headed,) but it just looked poorly built. Even in person. The new Fenders didn't, at least to me. I know they're not the top of the line, but one hell of a value.


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:06 am
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brotherdave wrote:
You have to be careful here. You can't go by the name brand anymore. Not once in amp production has Asian outsourcing proved to have been a step up in quality. The Ampeg debacle is a perfect example. Asian outsourcing everything with the Ampeg name on it was a huge mistake and to save the brand Ampeg eventually resumed US production on models for people who wanted ones that would actually work. I still would not be surprised if Ampeg folded.

GK's original MB112 in the metal cab was a real popular amp and by all accounts a winner in a small combo. I'd prefer one of those in good used condition over one of the brand new Asian made ones.



I just got off the phone with Gallien-Krueger. Their new combos are not Asian made as Brother Dave asserts, but rather made right here in the good old U.S. of A.

For as much technical expertise that Brother Dave does indeed possess, he is a loose cannon on this thread, and paints with far too broad a brush of condemnation. He needs to check his facts first. In this case he jumped to an erroneous conclusion and in so doing slandered the good reputation of a good company. He also mislead some Fender Forum readers. None of us are perfect, and I'm sure he ment no real harm.

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:27 pm
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Also found this intel online from SWR: "Although SWR and FBA® (Fender Bass Amplification) necessarily share some resources, they have separate Marketing, Artist Relations and, of course, Electronics R&D teams. There is a good deal of friendly competition within the offices, which we feel helps to make both brands better.

Q: Where are SWR amplifiers manufactured now?
A: The country of origin is usually specified on the back panel of your SWR product but, in general, the Professional Series products are built in Corona, California; the WorkingPro and Acoustic Series products are built in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico; and the LA Series is manufactured in Indonesia."

So SWR's Working Pro combos are built in Fender's plant in Mexico.

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2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:36 pm
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Called Peavey about their new MAX bass combos. Flat out China all the way.

Samson, the owner of Hartke was a bit more difficult. The info-babe there said a generic "they all come from overseas I believe." After pumping her for more intel she put me on hold. After I didn't hang-up she said "the parts come from China and are assembled in America". All of them? I asked. "Yeah, pretty much." she said.

OK there you have it. That's what I found out today. :wink:

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2012 Lefty American Standard Jazz
2017 Lefty American Professional Precision
2018 Rumble Studio 40 Combo
2016 Rumble 200 Combo
One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:56 pm
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linnin wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
You have to be careful here. You can't go by the name brand anymore. Not once in amp production has Asian outsourcing proved to have been a step up in quality. The Ampeg debacle is a perfect example. Asian outsourcing everything with the Ampeg name on it was a huge mistake and to save the brand Ampeg eventually resumed US production on models for people who wanted ones that would actually work. I still would not be surprised if Ampeg folded.

GK's original MB112 in the metal cab was a real popular amp and by all accounts a winner in a small combo. I'd prefer one of those in good used condition over one of the brand new Asian made ones.



I just got off the phone with Gallien-Krueger. Their new combos are not Asian made as Brother Dave asserts, but rather made right here in the good old U.S. of A.

For as much technical expertise that Brother Dave does indeed possess, he is a loose cannon on this thread, and paints with far too broad a brush of condemnation. He needs to check his facts first. In this case he jumped to an erroneous conclusion and in so doing slandered the good reputation of a good company. He also mislead some Fender Forum readers. None of us are perfect, and I'm sure he ment no real harm.


@LINNIN: I stand corrected. Consider this cannon lashed down Captain Linnin sir. But I still prefer the old MB12's, even though the new ones are USA made merely because I like tried and proven stuff.

I suppose I was also misinformed and the GK BACKLINE series is actually first rate pro line reliable USA made gear too since GK has such a "good reputation" and is such a "good company." I meant no harm in my post either real or artificial.

Not sure why you wanted to make this a personal attack. But for whatever reason it was a real good one! Linnin shoots, Linnin SCORES!


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Post subject: Re: The Competition
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:16 am
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Not to worry, brotherdave.

There are plenty of members here (myself among them) who regard you as one of the most knowledgeable bass resources on this forum. In my book you're still batting a .998 average.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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