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Post subject: how to choose
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:23 am
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I play guitar,mandolin, dobro and now bass.
I would like to get a bass amp and was looking at the Rumble 30 or 75 but then I heard about the Bronco 40, and then read more here in the forum about the Bassman115. Now I'm confused. I play smaller venues and can put a mic in front of the cabinet through a PA for larger ones.
Hey bass players, why choose one amp over the other? The Bronco has the computer connection which could be great when recording.
I'm sooooo lost. Can anyone share some insite for a Country, easy rock player?

Thanks all in advance.


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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:26 pm
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I'd like to suggest that you go to any larger music store and test various bass amps. That sounds simple, but going to a larger store that has many customers - all making noise - may approximate the background noise that you might encounter at your gigs. The amplifier performance can be judged better through the customer noise under real world conditions and give you a better idea of how much power and types of features you will need.

The Bronco 40 is a fine amp, however, I'm sure that the Rumble 150 Combo would do a good job for you and you would have a little extra 'punch' available if you have a larger gig in the future. It's only a little more money but has over 3 times the available power if you need it.

Best of Luck...

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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:25 am
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pickhappy wrote:
I play guitar,mandolin, dobro and now bass.
I would like to get a bass amp and was looking at the Rumble 30 or 75 but then I heard about the Bronco 40, and then read more here in the forum about the Bassman115. Now I'm confused. I play smaller venues and can put a mic in front of the cabinet through a PA for larger ones.
Hey bass players, why choose one amp over the other? The Bronco has the computer connection which could be great when recording.
I'm sooooo lost. Can anyone share some insite for a Country, easy rock player?

Thanks all in advance.


Wow I'm really glad you asked. People will discuss basses on here incessantly while so little is said of amps that the Bass Amp part of the forum has tumbleweeds blow through from time to time. Since you are already a pro player and probably know a lot you might think I'm talking down to you, but I wanted to make this post as thorough as possible for those who may not yet be at your level, so apologies in advance.

You seem to be in the combo market. You mentioned miking a lower powered combo for gigs. I prefer to buy one with an XLR direct out so you don't need to use a mic and therefore have one less thing to keep up with. When playing indoors I use a small bass combo amp as a monitor pointed at my head with an XLR direct out to the PA. Doing this you usually get a richer sound than you will by miking a smaller amp. Some, like Line 6, use a cab emulation circuit to make it sound like a big miked cab that is catching some air instead of an un-embellished pure direct out, but whether it has cab emulation built-in to the direct out or not...the XLR out feature is highly desirable on a combo you plan to gig or record with. No XLR out on a combo frankly means that I'm not buying it. You can direct out an unbalanced direct out if you also use a direct box but then you again have one more thing to keep up with. Whether using a direct out or miking a bass amp at gigs you will get disappointing results unless you have a robust PA that has husky subwoofers. Without capable subwoofers in the PA array, depending on miking an electric bass is frankly not a good idea at all. Fortunately my band has a big PA, but when gigging somewhere that I'm unsure of what PA system we will be using I take a traditional gig rig with a full stack of bass cabs.

I choose a combo based on a collection of factors. 1. Tone. 2 Volume. 3. Features 4. Weight and size. 5. Reputation of build quality. 6. Country of Origin.

I'll address these qualities separately in order here and first comes tone. I want an authoritative yet mostly clean bass tone but also want the option to add upper mids if I need them and the chance to dirty up the tone with a little overdrive when I want. You can always dirty up a clean tone, but it is nearly impossible to clean up a dirty one! Each manufacturer's preamp sections are voiced differently, for instance some preamps even when set flat still add low end emphasis while others don't and actually are pretty flat. Some bass amps excel at clarity while others excel at punch and still others have gobs of sheer low end sternum shaking tone. I look for a balance and an amp that can at least approximate all of the above on demand THROUGH the direct out. The tone in stand-alone mode is heavily impacted by cab design and size of the speaker and whether or not a horn is included in the cab design. Having a built in horn is a good feature, but not really a deal breaker for me. When you direct out to a PA the speaker limitations of your combo are not relevant at all.

Second comes volume. The loudest amps are NOT always the best amp for me. A thin tone that is way loud is less desirable to me than a moderately loud full range tone. Yet anything less than about 50 watts isn't really loud enough for stand alone use at rehearsals with a drummer. An under 50 watt amp is pretty much a practice/recording amp unless you patch it into a PA. I don't like patching to the rehearsal PA system which is far smaller than our gig PA as it has no subs...therefore I will only consider a combo with at least 75 watts for rehearsal use. That is the smallest amount of power that I've found will work with my band in stand-alone mode for rehearsal. As far as power is concerned, different manufacturers apparently calculate power differently. I have two 450 watt solid state amp heads made by one company and I have a 100 watt solid state amp head made by another maker. Comparing the two patched into the same speaker array I've found that the 450 watt amp is not really all that much louder than the 100 watter. So instead of watt ratings on paper, I've learned to go by my own basic rule of thumb for amps which is this, no matter the claimed power rating, if I have to turn an amp over half volume then I need a bigger amp. The last thing you ever want to do is overdrive a bass amp to clipping as this will blow speakers quickly.

Third is features. I like these features in my bass combos. Some are REQUIREMENTS and others are NOT deal-breakers if they are missing on a combo yet still nice:
A-Separate input gain & Master Volume. (required)
B-Separate 0dB and padded active inputs are preferable but at least have an input pad on single input amps so you can use an active bass. (required)
C-XLR Direct Out to feed a PA or recording console and if it has a separate volume control for the direct out all the better but at the very least it should have a ground lift switch. (required)
D- Headphone Jack, handy for headphone practice. (required)
E-Auxiliary input for MP3, CD, etc is valuable again for practice. (required)
F-Tone controls beyond just the basic bass and treble. I want all the EQ controls I can get. At the very least, Bass/Mid/Treble is required, but the more the merrier and mid sweep parametric controls are nice. Graphic EQ is nice too, but if it doesn't have a graphic EQ or parametric tone controls that is NOT a deal-breaker.
G-Built in compressor, not a limiter but a built in compressor is a great feature to have. (Not a deal-breaker)
H-A phone jack out for the Preamp or an effects send allows you to patch from your combo to another combo or power amp with the same tone you are getting on the primary combo. Or you can use an effects send to patch from the preamp out to an effects rack or a tuner then back into the power amp. (Not a deal-breaker.)
I-A speaker jack to allow you to add another speaker cab. Most combos will run a 4 Ohm load, a few a 2 Ohm load. A speaker jack allows you to add an extra speaker cabinet, however lately the trend has been to put a 4 Ohm speaker in the combo in the first place and not to add a speaker jack. No external speaker jack is not a deal breaker for me, but would be nice to have. Basically if I'm moving speaker cabs instead of a combo I might as well set up the gig rig in the first place so not having an extension speaker jack is not a deal-breaker.
J-Built in tuners are great. I love them and it is a nice feature, but if a combo doesn't have one it is OK as I have a tuner pedal.

Fourth comes weight and size. Time was that a heavy amp meant a quality amp. Not so today. I have dragged heavy stacks around since 1968 by myself. The combo amps I've used up until about 5 years ago were not exactly compact or lightweight. In 2011 you can get incredibly light excellent sounding combos thanks to modern Class D amp technology, lightweight single tube preamps and neodymium speakers. In a combo I'm looking for lightweight tastefully tone endowed basic amps loud enough to cover the drummer up at rehearsal. Today's heavier combo amps often are heavier because they are using composite pressed fiber board as the cabinet material and older less efficient amp technology. While composite board is heavier, it is far less durable than conventional plywood, so I want plywood cabs. Lots of the weight used to come from the ceramic magnets in the speakers, but with new neo magnet technology the more desirable 10, 12 and 15 inch bass combo speakers have gotten much lighter. Usually the light, compact yet powerful combos are more expensive but really are worth a little more for the convenience of having lots of killer tone in a bantam sized package. Good values in small combos in random order include the new Micro series from Carvin (in my judgment the best value in a USA made micro combo), the smallest of the recently introduced Fender TV Bassmans, The CMD series from MarkBass, The Walkabout Scout from Mesa Boogie, The Promethean 1x10 and 2x10 combos from Ibanez, the under 19 pound Shuttle 1x10 from Genz-Benz, and the affordable 75 watt Studio 110 from Line 6 which just barely makes the cut as a rehearsal amp that can easily double as a indoor gigging amp. Other good micros exist, but these are the decent smaller mini/micro combos I'm personally familiar with. If you don't mind a lot more weight then less expensive combos like the Fender Rumble series, the Ampeg BA series, the Line 6 LD 150, the larger Kustoms and larger Acoustics are more modestly priced, have good tone and most of the more important features but are a lot heavier load to move.

Fifth, I usually stick with the name brands I know. For example GK is a top brand lots of people love, but I've never actually used a GK amp so I tend to mention brands I know and I don't know GK well enough to actually recommend them, however they have just introduced a new lightweight combo series which I've never tried either and might be just perfect for you. Just because I haven't used it doesn't mean you shouldn't use a GK or TC Electronics or Eden or EBS, and by all means if you like them then you should buy them! It is just that I'm not going to recommend any specific amp line I'm not thoroughly familiar with and found at least moderately capable. Before buying an amp, check out their reputation at a site like Harmony-Central where all sorts of amps have been reviewed by impartial users. Then next BEFORE BUYING you should actually PLAY it with the main instrument you are going to use with it. As was mentioned a noisy music store environment is ideal. Turn it up to half volume. See how loud it is. See if it distorts. See if it buzzes or hisses.

Sixth, the country where an amp is made carries a lot of weight with me personally. Workers in the USA, Canada and Fender's Mexico amp shop have been building reliable amps for a long time. Most of the combos available today however are of offshore origin, even the stalwart USA brand names Peavey and Ampeg have outsourced their combos to Asia. Ampeg is again building a handful of cabs, heads and at least one combo in the USA at a premium price called the HERITAGE SERIES. There have been issues galore with some Asian amp manufacturing lines more than others. Peavey also still builds their TOUR series combos in the USA but the rest are Asian. While I'd prefer a USA made amp the options in small & light mass produced USA made combos are few and far between. Basically Carvin, Mesa Boogie and Genz-Benz are it! Everything else is either Asian, British or Italian made. If buying a Chinese made amp, the more reliable ones historically have been the ones that have been made in China for years, not the ones that were USA made and then within the past 3 years had production moved to China.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in some cases the same plant in China is making more than one amp brand using the same components but with different cosmetics. This is akin to Fender Japan getting Fuji Gen Gakki to make their Fender Japan guitars while Fuji Gen was also making other competing brands. For example the Kustom KXB100 bass amp and the Acoustic B100 are pretty much the same amp with exactly the same dimensions & weight and only minor spec variances such as the Kustom having an XLR out while the Acoustic doesn't. Both are even exactly the same price! Both these amps are value leading traditional style heavier combos but I'd buy the Kustom over the Acoustic myself only because of the XLR out. So compare features carefully even on amps with very similar specs!

Now, all that being said. A 15 inch combo might sound better for country than a 2x10 combo or a 1x10 combo when unaided by a direct out to a beefy PA. But when direct out to a big PA you can't really tell what size speaker is in the bass combo amp! Most of the old school bassists were using 15's and most of today's PA subwoofers are 18's or 15's. Modern bass tones often require a 2 way cabinet that adds a horn. Again when going direct out to the PA it really won't matter if your combo has a horn or not but when using it in standalone mode you will be hard pressed to get a modern tone from a combo with no built in horn.

Finally, some people are getting away from using a traditional bass amp altogether! They are using amp emulation devices like Tech 21 NYC Bass Drivers, Line 6 Bass Pods or other emulation boxes patched direct to the PA or recording mixer. In this scenario you have to depend on the stage monitors to hear the bass which requires top quality PA stage monitors and a good tech to keep it all balanced. As you know often the band depends on the bass to hold everything together and if they can't hear the bass they will for sure get lost.

Good luck in your tone quest!


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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:08 am
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Whoa . . . that was a very thorough and informative answer.

Being mostly an acoustic player, that helped a lot.

Appreciations.


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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:43 am
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There isn't a one trick pony that will cover every gig with bass amplification, particularly in the lower budget spectrum. Although if your budget permits a head/cabinet setup, the Rumble configurations seem pretty flexible. You can add or subtract as you see (hear) fit.

If you have acoustic drums being played with sticks without restraint, less is not more, more is better. With one exception, with equalization it doesn't need to be that complex, particularly with a Fender bass. If the signal path is straightforward with decent components, you will not need too much complexity with the layout. If need to excessively fiddle with the knobs, the bass might need some work or it is likely not a good match. Frankly, some of the best equipment I have used live and the studio is most often a very simple layout. In some cases it was just treble and bass...AKA B-15ish tone stack. A good tonal foundation is easily achieved by starting as close to flat as possible then making subtle adjustments as the situation dictates. Again, the Rumble seems very simple.

Bass is physical instrument by nature. It takes more strength to play and it needs strength from its components to move air. Certainly, an adequate sound system can deliver the sound to the house, but you still need to fill the stage. I certainly would not count on monitors to help you. I worked on many large stages with great monitors. Depending what you need to hear in them in regards to other instruments &/or vocals, it can become cluttered. It is nice to have your own adequate dedicated and self-adjustable monitor...your bass rig! Keeping things in perspective get a rig that will cover your gig with some extra headroom (power to spare with speakers & amp) that quickly gets to point in regards to your desired tone. With sufficient power and a good working Fender bass, this should be easy! Lastly, if Fender is being conservative with their specs in regards to the Rumble rigs, they seem like nice options with pro features...example: XLR Line Out with ground lift for PA and recording.


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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:28 pm
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In the case of the Ampeg B15N, it was pretty universally accepted as the recording studio standard of bass amps of the early/mid 60's, but the most famous players that used them in the studio (Dunn & Jamerson for two) weren't very fond of them. In the studios Carol Kaye used Fenders or went direct to board mostly before switching to a variety of amp brands depending on who was endorsing her at the time. As soon as the late 60's most bass tracks were recorded direct, even Jamerson's. The reluctance to use the B15N live outside the studio was not the lack of a mid control but the main factor was deficiency in volume compared to other amps on the market. Jamerson preferred Kustom and Dunn went with Marshall and Fender outside the studio during the same era when they were recording the soundtrack of the 60's with a B15. B15 reissues had the power upped significantly.

I agree less is not more in wattage. But I think a mid control and even a parametric mid control is valuable. Ampeg recognized this too and the reissue B15's added a mid control and eventually a sweepable mid control too in addition to more power. Often what sounds good in the studio control room doesn't fly as well in live performance. Remember usually amps were not miked for most live gigs back then.

The Fender Rumble 100 combo is the smallest Rumble combo with an XLR direct out. The smaller ones have high impedance phone jack direct outs. Personally I prefer an XLR direct out and if a combo doesn't have one, I seek one that does.

I use a 75 watt combo with an XLR out to the PA quite a bit. I played a gig with it yesterday. I put it on a stand in front of me and point it at my head like a monitor. This gives the PA tech the opportunity to give us a more balanced sound instead. I put it directly next to the floor monitor. Everyone on stage can hear it and you don't have to put it in the monitors. It does go to the front of house arrays only.

I know several players that use the amp emulator boxes relying on the stage monitors to hear themselves in spite of the "clutter." If the PA system is capable it obviously works and more bass can be sent to one monitor feed just for the bassist. I prefer to have my combo though. I do patch to the PA but some of our monitors are smaller 12 inch ones so keys, guitar and vocals go in the monitor mix, no drums or bass.


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Post subject: Re: how to choose
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:13 am
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pickhappy wrote:
I play the guitar,mandolin, dobro and now bass.
I would like to get a bass amp and was looking at the Rumble 30 or 75 but then I heard about the Bronco 40, and then read more here in the forum about the Bassman115. Now I'm confused. I play smaller venues and can put a mic in front of the cabinet through a PA for larger ones.
Hey bass players, why choose one amp over the other? The Bronco has the computer connection which could be great when recording.
I'm sooooo lost. Can anyone share some insite for a Country, easy rock player?

Thanks all in advance.

Well, all I can suggest is you to get a Fender Rumble 100/115 Combo Bass. Tried and tested in some of our small gigs. Really awesome and still kickin'.


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