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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:17 am
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philip602 wrote:
mdionne001 wrote:
I would like to mention that my interest in the all-tube low-med power range bass amps stems in part to my early experiences with my first new Fender bass amp. It was a 1973 Fender Bassman-50 1x15 half-stack, silver faced amp. Maybe for large or some even medium venues that lacked PA support, those weren't the best bass amps to use. But I never played large venues with it. And for my purpose it worked and sounded great. I and a number of other people on another forum were hoping the TV series amps were a step to bring back those amps (albeit with improvements).

The point is that most bass players don't play large venues (or even gig for that matter). They play bass for the love of the instrument and for the joy it brings them. Some of us (probably more than Fender realizes) would find great joy (and tonal bliss) with a Fender built all-tube bass combo (similar or even better then Ampeg's Fliptop). :wink:


Peace!


Mike


I had a 50W (circa 66) Bassman and 2 X 12 cab that I got mainly for guitar back in 68. But I often enough used it on bass in small jazz club settings (I was in a trio) and in coffee houses (I sometimes backed up local folkies on bass and electric guitar). It had a very nice, deep bass tone as long as you didn't push the amp too hard.

I'd use it running at around 5 (from distant memory) and it had more than enough power for say a lounge (seating for maybe 40 people between bar and tables) or comparably sized coffee house.

I think this is what quite a few of us are talking about. There are many LA area venues where something in a 50 - 75W range would be more than enough. I'm sure that's true elsewhere too. For comparison, I now use a Bassman 210/250 with a tube pre in the FX loop ... that does a decent job of warming and fattening the tone, but not the same as a tube power section.

So here's another vote for an < 100W all tube combo. And I'd like a 2 X 12 option too ... more versatile than a 1 X 15 for those of us who double on 6 string but want more depth than a 2 X 10 gives.


Sounds good. How about a 100W Tube Combo with a direct out, tuner out and maybe a foot-switchable mute. Tilt back casters and available with a few different speaker configurations; 1X15, 2X12, and maybe a 3X10. Perhaps a horn thrown in there (with it's own attenuator of course).

It just seems to me that Fender has done the same thing as Ampeg, when they put out their "Rocketbass" series; They went for a 'vintage' aesthetic, rather than focus on what made those older amps so desirable.

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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:24 pm
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Hopefully Fender will read these posts and decide to give tube bass heads and combos real consideration for a change.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bassman TV Amps
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:36 pm
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mdionne001 wrote:
Discussion about the new Bassman TV amps on a major bass player forum indicate a sincere dissapointment with Fender's decision to make these amps hybrid rather than all-tube combos. They, and I, feel that an opportunity was missed by not giving bass players what guitarists enjoy. WE WANT an ALL-TUBE combo bass amp! 100 watts for the 1x10 and 1x15 and 150-200 watt 2x10 and 4x10 versions would be greatly appreciated. Modern and vintage styling with extension cab capability (matching extension cabs!) are very much desired by many bass players.

Not to be snarky, but are there any bass players involved in bass amplifier development at Fender?

Bass amps do NOT have to be high powered tube amps to be useful to bass players (especially for recording and music composition purposes). There are many applications for low and/or medium powered all-tube bass amps.

If Fender plans to produce such amps in the near future please say so. If not, why not?

Thanks!

Classic! 8) carry on Bro!

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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:39 pm
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I've not played the new TV amps but I did recently pickup an Ampeg B-200R that is the same basic idea -- moderate powered combo with tube preamp. I've been very happy with the tone, it's warm and fat and the preamp seems to do what it was intended to do. I've heard Ampeg managed to pull this hybrid idea off better than others, but since this is my only hybrid I can't comment. I just know Ampeg made it work, so maybe Fender did too. I'm willing to give the new TVs a shot.


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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:04 pm
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mdionne001 wrote:
Hopefully Fender will read these posts and decide to give tube bass heads and combos real consideration for a change.


Could not agree with you more. Fender has an incredible opp here as this niche for a low powered all tube amp is wide open.


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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:02 pm
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I haven't been actively looking for a TV Bassman to try out, however I finally saw 2 of them today (12", 15") for the first time and tried out the 15" combo.
I'm a lover of the tweed look and my tone requirements have nothing to do with distortion - tube or otherwise - in my bass playing. My tone is old school and there's no clanging fret-string rattle to be heard either.

My conclusion - the amp delivers my kind of tone with no effort at all. I have owned several all tube bass amps and my current rig is a Little Mark II head into a couple of 12" Traynor cabs....that's 500 Watts in a 6 lb amp and each cab weighs 25 lb, 8 Ohm 300 Watts.

I have no problem with hybrids or any modern amp using class D power stages. I liked, no loved, the Bassman TV amp but I tried to pick it up - UGH! it weighs a LOT. At my age, light weight is important so I wouldn't buy the amp. It has lots of power and tone that I really like.

I guess you could argue that it's easier to haul than an SVT head and refrigerator cab. Given the choice of those 2, I'd go with the Fender.


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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:47 pm
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I am looking forward to hearing the new TV Bassman amps.

I think that Fender is on a good track here if these sound as good as, say the Ampeg B200R -- that amp sounded GREAT (tube preamp, SS power, 1x15, 220W) but later models suffered mightily from shoddy construction that rendered them near useless.

If Fender can design an amp that sounds as good, and that is made a good deal better, then they (and we) can have a real winner on our hands.


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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:54 pm
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LowbrowNYC wrote:
I am looking forward to hearing the new TV Bassman amps.

I think that Fender is on a good track here if these sound as good as, say the Ampeg B200R -- that amp sounded GREAT (tube preamp, SS power, 1x15, 220W) but later models suffered mightily from shoddy construction that rendered them near useless.

If Fender can design an amp that sounds as good, and that is made a good deal better, then they (and we) can have a real winner on our hands.


Yes and no. While I think these amps will sound and perform fine I like many bass players are really looking for Fender or another company to step up and offer more all tube bass amps. We should have a few more options then are currently available.


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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:48 pm
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mdionne001 wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
Hi Folks,

1. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording.


Saying there are plenty of old vintage amps lying around for us tube guys/gals to use is not even close to reasonable.



I've been a recording engineer (meaning that's how I earned a living as opposed to 'running sound for a bar') since the late 70s, and I for one still mic up the amp. It's my preferred method, and to my ear sounds much much better than a dry/D-I signal.

From time to time, I'll also run a 2nd signal straight from the bass itself, and combine the two. But for me, a miced amp sounds infinitely better. My personal bass amp is an completely original '72 Bassman 100. Everything sounds great through it, and would never give it up.

All tube bass amplification is King.


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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:02 pm
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Have you guys given thought to how long a tube based bass combo would last?

That ampeg fliptop has those tubes sitting on top for a reason.


anyway. tube combo's for guitars take a lot of maintenance with all the vibration and stress on the pcb, I couldn't imagine how long it'd take for the tube sockets to shake themselves lose on a 100 watt 2X10 non ported bass combo.

And before you go "yeah, but I had a 1955 tube combo that did yadda-yadda...." I'll be willing to bet that it was ptp, or at least it wasn't farted out at some offshore factory that could care less about quality. Search HRDLX in the guitar forums to get an idea of how tourble free low cost, high wattage guitar amps are.


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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:37 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
Hi Folks,

1. Has anyone trashing the TV amps and slinging mud at Fender's R&D actually PLAYED one?

2. I like the way the tube pre's sound in the Ampeg SVT-PRO series and the MarkBass hybrids very much.

3. There are plenty of 60's/70's Bassman heads out there. Fender makes the all tube Bassman 300 Pro which is an excellent tube amp. Tube junkies should buy one. They are a total killer tube amp. They are cheaper than the all tube TV Bassman would be too. They are not made in China either like the Ampeg SVT 300 Classic.

4. I do NOT want to drag an all tube amp around. If they tubed the TV series they'd weigh at least twice what they spec at now and that really is way heavier than the similarly powered MarkBass combos. So if I had any criticism at this point before trying one out it would be to ask why are they not lighter?

5. The TV series does a minimum 4 ohms. Most Class D amps are the same spec. By putting a 4 ohm speaker in the TV's you are going to get all the power possible from the amp without having to drag a second cab around. I also like that. I'm all for keeping it simple, compact and easy to move.

6. Have you even considered that the TV Tube Bassmans may already be coming a little later?

7. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording, and even then the only mic picking up the bass is vocal mics because the bass is being picked up direct.

Everyone has different needs, wants and opinions. However, I don't think it is fair to trash something you haven't even tried and insult FMIC. A lot of R&D and market research went into these things.

I have owned lots of all tube bass amps. But I wouldn't drag any of them around to gigs anymore.


Hey Brother Dave,

I'm lucky, I got one already.

I own a 350 Watt TV Bassman 15 & I love it. I've been playing for years & have owned all types of bass amps, all tube, hybrid, solid state etc.

This amp has the full warm tone I've been looking for. It's a real bass amp. I prefer this to the Mark Bass Little Mark I had previously.
I like it better than the Ampeg B-15' re-issues because it has more power.

I agree with you regarding moving large amps. It's not 1970 anymore. I downsized my car to a smaller fuel efficient vehicle, now it's time to downsize my gear as well. If you are playing a big room. There's a D/I line out.


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Post subject: TV Bassman - wow, people
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:10 am
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You guys are *way* too concerned about tubes. There was not a single post complaining about the TV amps not being fully tubed that also included little things like the bass you use (rounds + active preamp = not warm no matter what; ever try to warm up a MM Stingray?) or, more importantly, the player's ability to groove.

I play U.S.A. P-Basses, one with rounds and one flats, through a Bassman 150 solid state amp in smaller venues and get compliments on my tone all the time. And, yes, I've recorded with this setup with excellent results. Also, when recording with the Precision Bass, there have been many times I've just plugged it right into the recording console. Rarely are EQ adjustments necessary and when they are, it's just to compensate for the sound of the guitars in the tracks.

Unless you need 300 watt Fender or Ampeg full tube amps because you're playing large venues, tubes are irrelevant compared to your playing style, choice of professional instrument and, most of all, how well you groove.

Now, I'm going to shut up and go play.

Keren


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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:26 am
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I have a rare, Made in U.S.A. Ampeg Rocket B200R 15" bass combo and it is right for all occasions where my Bassman 150 is not. It is rare because they were only produced in the U.S.A. for a short time before Loud Technologies bought out Ampeg and moved all combo production to China. :evil:

The B200R is one of the best sounding combo bass amps around; I sampled numerous combos for a year, using my own basses, before I bought one. All Ampeg combos can be cranked almost full up without farting out - try that with a pricey Eden or MarkBass combo. Not! The only other combos that held up to higher volumes were the Fenders, mostly the Bassman 150 (a great combo with seriously pro features).

I can't wait to try a Bassman TV 15 - based on early reviews, my Ampeg may be looking for a new home - unless the TV is made in China...

K


LowbrowNYC wrote:
I am looking forward to hearing the new TV Bassman amps.

I think that Fender is on a good track here if these sound as good as, say the Ampeg B200R -- that amp sounded GREAT (tube preamp, SS power, 1x15, 220W) but later models suffered mightily from shoddy construction that rendered them near useless.

If Fender can design an amp that sounds as good, and that is made a good deal better, then they (and we) can have a real winner on our hands.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:31 am
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Joesasser wrote:
mdionne001 wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
Hi Folks,

1. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording.


Saying there are plenty of old vintage amps lying around for us tube guys/gals to use is not even close to reasonable.



I've been a recording engineer (meaning that's how I earned a living as opposed to 'running sound for a bar') since the late 70s, and I for one still mic up the amp. It's my preferred method, and to my ear sounds much much better than a dry/D-I signal.

From time to time, I'll also run a 2nd signal straight from the bass itself, and combine the two. But for me, a miced amp sounds infinitely better. My personal bass amp is an completely original '72 Bassman 100. Everything sounds great through it, and would never give it up.

All tube bass amplification is King.


I used to feel that way. I had a really nice 70's Bassman 135 with a 2/15 cabinet. I also had a nice Traynor all Tube bass amp. I gigged with the Fender & used the Traynor to record. It never left the house. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get rid of the hum in the recording studio from the old amps. I even tried the studio's mint vinatge B-15. Same problem. It was there. I went through all this problem of trying to mic these tube amps but always ended up using the direct tracks. Now when iI record, I run my 72 stock P bass through a Sans amp bass D/I & get the warmest fattest tone ever.

I stopped using tube amps live for exactly the reason another poster described. Tubes would shake loose, or worse, on nights I had a few sets, the amp would need a cooling down period in-between sets or it would not power on.

The TV Bassman is a welcome option for me now Live. Aside from the tone, it's a really nice looking amp.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:24 pm
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I've read all of the posts pertaining to this product, and I really feel a lot of people have missed the point of the Bassman T.V.

Many people seem upset that it is a hybrid amp and does not have a tube power section. It is one thing to simply not like the sound of a hybrid amp, but people seem to think that the ONLY reason it has a solid state power section is to reduce cost, reduce weight, and make maintenance easier. This is NOT the case. Hybrid amps do NOT have solid state power sections for convenience, it is a tonal reason.

I have played many solid state, all tube, and hybrid amps on the market. Solid states do sound quite different than all tube amps, and there are a ton of die hard players on both sides. I believe it is safe to say that it really comes down to personal preference rather than which side is better.

Hybrid amps are just that: a hybrid between the tone of a solid state and an all tube. It has much of the warmth that the tube preamp provides without the massive compression that you get with a tube power section. It also has a snappiness and presence that you don't get with an all tube amp.

I've played the bassman T.V. It sounds fantastic. It has a ton of warmth, but it also has a quality that is very SS. It is not trying to sound like and SVT. Instead, it has it's on unique quality that a lot of people are undervaluing.


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