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Post subject: New Bassman TV amps
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:15 pm
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Hi, i've been playing for a couple of years now. I really like the sound that fender guitar amps have ( i'm learning to play guitar now for blues) and i'm considering buying one of the new tube bass amps that fender is making. When anybody gets any information on or experience with one of these amps please reply with your opinion of it. I don't plan on gigging at all, just jamming with guitar, bass and drums. We like to play blues and classic rock (Led Zep, some Beatles, the blues is just made up stuff). I would just like to know if i can get a warm classic tone out of the amp and if it is worth the price.

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Post subject: Fender Bassman TV Amps
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:26 pm
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Discussion about the new Bassman TV amps on a major bass player forum indicate a sincere dissapointment with Fender's decision to make these amps hybrid rather than all-tube combos. They, and I, feel that an opportunity was missed by not giving bass players what guitarists enjoy. WE WANT an ALL-TUBE combo bass amp! 100 watts for the 1x10 and 1x15 and 150-200 watt 2x10 and 4x10 versions would be greatly appreciated. Modern and vintage styling with extension cab capability (matching extension cabs!) are very much desired by many bass players.

Not to be snarky, but are there any bass players involved in bass amplifier development at Fender?

Bass amps do NOT have to be high powered tube amps to be useful to bass players (especially for recording and music composition purposes). There are many applications for low and/or medium powered all-tube bass amps.

If Fender plans to produce such amps in the near future please say so. If not, why not?

Thanks!


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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:23 am
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Thanks for that bit of info. I might still try one out (i'm not sure where though, none of the stores around me say they plan of carrying it). That certainly helps make a more informed desicion about my next amp. I agree with you about not needing alot of power to get a nice amp, there are lot's of people like me who just for a nice amp for recreation and studio recording. That's disapointing to hear that people are not happy with this, and I hope Fender does something about it, like listening to what the public is interested in.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bassman TV Amps
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:42 pm
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mdionne001 wrote:
Discussion about the new Bassman TV amps on a major bass player forum indicate a sincere dissapointment with Fender's decision to make these amps hybrid rather than all-tube combos. They, and I, feel that an opportunity was missed by not giving bass players what guitarists enjoy. WE WANT an ALL-TUBE combo bass amp! 100 watts for the 1x10 and 1x15 and 150-200 watt 2x10 and 4x10 versions would be greatly appreciated. Modern and vintage styling with extension cab capability (matching extension cabs!) are very much desired by many bass players.

Not to be snarky, but are there any bass players involved in bass amplifier development at Fender?

Bass amps do NOT have to be high powered tube amps to be useful to bass players (especially for recording and music composition purposes). There are many applications for low and/or medium powered all-tube bass amps.

If Fender plans to produce such amps in the near future please say so. If not, why not?

Thanks!


It's unlikely that a reasonably sized combo amp would get more than 100 watts with tubes (that's 4x6L6's, and really only about 72 watts if you want them to last). In fact, tube power for bass amps is less important than for guitar amps: overdriving the output tubes with a bass gets muddy real fast.

But in reality, with 2x10 or 1 x 12 or 15, a bunch more power won't make it a bunch louder: you can only move so much air with a 15 inch speaker.

The proof will be in how these amps sound with real basses in real situations, not how they look on the spec sheet.

Eddie O


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Post subject: Re: Fender Bassman TV Amps
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:43 pm
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edoates wrote:
mdionne001 wrote:
Discussion about the new Bassman TV amps on a major bass player forum indicate a sincere dissapointment with Fender's decision to make these amps hybrid rather than all-tube combos. They, and I, feel that an opportunity was missed by not giving bass players what guitarists enjoy. WE WANT an ALL-TUBE combo bass amp! 100 watts for the 1x10 and 1x15 and 150-200 watt 2x10 and 4x10 versions would be greatly appreciated. Modern and vintage styling with extension cab capability (matching extension cabs!) are very much desired by many bass players.

Not to be snarky, but are there any bass players involved in bass amplifier development at Fender?

Bass amps do NOT have to be high powered tube amps to be useful to bass players (especially for recording and music composition purposes). There are many applications for low and/or medium powered all-tube bass amps.

If Fender plans to produce such amps in the near future please say so. If not, why not?

Thanks!


It's unlikely that a reasonably sized combo amp would get more than 100 watts with tubes (that's 4x6L6's, and really only about 72 watts if you want them to last). In fact, tube power for bass amps is less important than for guitar amps: overdriving the output tubes with a bass gets muddy real fast.

But in reality, with 2x10 or 1 x 12 or 15, a bunch more power won't make it a bunch louder: you can only move so much air with a 15 inch speaker.

The proof will be in how these amps sound with real basses in real situations, not how they look on the spec sheet.

Eddie O


Many bassists want the sound that you can ONLY achieve with a tube power amp section. Improvement in Power Transfomers can alsd help with the weight.

But that really isn't the main issue. The issue has to due with the application. High power amp applications are not what is being sought. Recording, composition and home and small venue (coffee house) use is the main interest of forum members that are discussing the all-tube bass combo question. This is what they, and I, had hoped for when the TV Amps were initially heard of.

Affordable. low-medium powered all-tube combo are being made for guitarists already and can be made for bass players as well.

The notion that bass amps MUST produce clean non-overdriven tone is also limited in view and scope to the application. :wink:


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Post subject: Tube amps
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:13 pm
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Most (all?) of those low power, reasonably priced all tube guitar amps distort like crazy: nice, clean overdriven distortion that guitarists crave. While it's true that some bass styles want overdriven bass as well, and a low power all tube amp might suffice, you won't get much volume before break up. My 40 watt Bassman RI is a thing of beauty on guitar, and on soft bass. But for modern applications, it just doesn't do it. I think I got that amp (not the ltd) for about $900 when it was new a few years ago.

But I get your point, and it is well taken. Me, I want my bass tone to be clean and have lots of headroom, and for that, I'd prefer a clean class D power amp with a tube preamp for some warmth. Sort of exactly what the new Fender's provide.

Eddie O


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:39 pm
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I would like to mention that my interest in the all-tube low-med power range bass amps stems in part to my early experiences with my first new Fender bass amp. It was a 1973 Fender Bassman-50 1x15 half-stack, silver faced amp. Maybe for large or some even medium venues that lacked PA support, those weren't the best bass amps to use. But I never played large venues with it. And for my purpose it worked and sounded great. I and a number of other people on another forum were hoping the TV series amps were a step to bring back those amps (albeit with improvements).

The point is that most bass players don't play large venues (or even gig for that matter). They play bass for the love of the instrument and for the joy it brings them. Some of us (probably more than Fender realizes) would find great joy (and tonal bliss) with a Fender built all-tube bass combo (similar or even better then Ampeg's Fliptop). :wink:


Peace!


Mike


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:39 pm
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My stand by amp for just about any application is my '66 Ampeg fip top which is probably not even 50 watts. If it had a direct out and an effects loop (at least a preamp out) it would be the perfect amp. I sometimes use it with a 2X10 added on for a more balanced sound with a little more definition, but the single Jensen "15 sounds so sweet it's kind of stupid to mess with the sound at all. Usually a mic on the cab is enough for any gig, but there's a reason for di's.

Point being, no one is really making any all tube combos for bass players anymore. I don't want to hear about two 12AX7's in the preamp section giving me tube tone. I have a Music Man HD 150 that has a solid state pre and tube power and it is by far warmer and richer than any "hybrid" I've played through. WE WANT TUBES!!!!!!!

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:02 am
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Tubes!

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:19 am
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It would be great if someone from Fender commented on bass players' desire for a tube combo(s) from FMIC. Low and medium powered tube amps aresought after by bass players. A number of bass plyers are buying OTHER manufacturer's low-medium powered all-tube guitar heads to find a solution for studio, home studio and recording needs. There is definitely a use for it. If FMIC needs any help figuring out how to accomplish this, I would be more than happy to help out.

The TV series combos were a good idea that fell short.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:58 am
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Hi Folks,

1. Has anyone trashing the TV amps and slinging mud at Fender's R&D actually PLAYED one?

2. I like the way the tube pre's sound in the Ampeg SVT-PRO series and the MarkBass hybrids very much.

3. There are plenty of 60's/70's Bassman heads out there. Fender makes the all tube Bassman 300 Pro which is an excellent tube amp. Tube junkies should buy one. They are a total killer tube amp. They are cheaper than the all tube TV Bassman would be too. They are not made in China either like the Ampeg SVT 300 Classic.

4. I do NOT want to drag an all tube amp around. If they tubed the TV series they'd weigh at least twice what they spec at now and that really is way heavier than the similarly powered MarkBass combos. So if I had any criticism at this point before trying one out it would be to ask why are they not lighter?

5. The TV series does a minimum 4 ohms. Most Class D amps are the same spec. By putting a 4 ohm speaker in the TV's you are going to get all the power possible from the amp without having to drag a second cab around. I also like that. I'm all for keeping it simple, compact and easy to move.

6. Have you even considered that the TV Tube Bassmans may already be coming a little later?

7. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording, and even then the only mic picking up the bass is vocal mics because the bass is being picked up direct.

Everyone has different needs, wants and opinions. However, I don't think it is fair to trash something you haven't even tried and insult FMIC. A lot of R&D and market research went into these things.

I have owned lots of all tube bass amps. But I wouldn't drag any of them around to gigs anymore.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:15 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Hi Folks,

1. Has anyone trashing the TV amps and slinging mud at Fender's R&D actually PLAYED one?

2. I like the way the tube pre's sound in the Ampeg SVT-PRO series and the MarkBass hybrids very much.

3. There are plenty of 60's/70's Bassman heads out there. Fender makes the all tube Bassman 300 Pro which is an excellent tube amp. Tube junkies should buy one. They are a total killer tube amp. They are cheaper than the all tube TV Bassman would be too. They are not made in China either like the Ampeg SVT 300 Classic.

4. I do NOT want to drag an all tube amp around. If they tubed the TV series they'd weigh at least twice what they spec at now and that really is way heavier than the similarly powered MarkBass combos. So if I had any criticism at this point before trying one out it would be to ask why are they not lighter?

5. The TV series does a minimum 4 ohms. Most Class D amps are the same spec. By putting a 4 ohm speaker in the TV's you are going to get all the power possible from the amp without having to drag a second cab around. I also like that. I'm all for keeping it simple, compact and easy to move.

6. Have you even considered that the TV Tube Bassmans may already be coming a little later?

7. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording, and even then the only mic picking up the bass is vocal mics because the bass is being picked up direct.

Everyone has different needs, wants and opinions. However, I don't think it is fair to trash something you haven't even tried and insult FMIC. A lot of R&D and market research went into these things.

I have owned lots of all tube bass amps. But I wouldn't drag any of them around to gigs anymore.


I hear you about not wanting to lug a heavy rig out to gigs, which is why if I don't need the power of my Bassman 300, I use the portaflex. A decent Di and a 57 on the single 15" jensen gives me great tone, but I don't like the idea of constantly moving my 40+ year old amp. There's a reason why there are certain "industry standards". The Twin Reverb, The 59 Bassman, the Ampeg B15, the SVT... Most of these "standards" have been reissued and even improved upon by adding more modern features (direct out, effects loop...) For the most part, guitar players have been catered to, leaving bass players in the dust. I understand it's a niche market, but only relative to the guitar market. There are clearly enough of us that would buy such a product and if for no other reason, someone should be trying to produce and market one to us.

BTW I have played through a couple of the TV amps (I was at the local shop that I used to manage when the Fender rep stopped by to demo them and then demand an order that only Guitar Center could really afford) and they aren't 'bad' amps. They just aren't what I am looking for.
I prefer an all tube amp, like my B15 for recording especially. You can record direct exclusively if you want, but you're far better off blending direct with a mic'd cab if you have the option.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:40 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Hi Folks,

1. Has anyone trashing the TV amps and slinging mud at Fender's R&D actually PLAYED one?

2. I like the way the tube pre's sound in the Ampeg SVT-PRO series and the MarkBass hybrids very much.

3. There are plenty of 60's/70's Bassman heads out there. Fender makes the all tube Bassman 300 Pro which is an excellent tube amp. Tube junkies should buy one. They are a total killer tube amp. They are cheaper than the all tube TV Bassman would be too. They are not made in China either like the Ampeg SVT 300 Classic.

4. I do NOT want to drag an all tube amp around. If they tubed the TV series they'd weigh at least twice what they spec at now and that really is way heavier than the similarly powered MarkBass combos. So if I had any criticism at this point before trying one out it would be to ask why are they not lighter?

5. The TV series does a minimum 4 ohms. Most Class D amps are the same spec. By putting a 4 ohm speaker in the TV's you are going to get all the power possible from the amp without having to drag a second cab around. I also like that. I'm all for keeping it simple, compact and easy to move.

6. Have you even considered that the TV Tube Bassmans may already be coming a little later?

7. Who is recording by miking an amp anymore. It is all direct unless it is a live recording, and even then the only mic picking up the bass is vocal mics because the bass is being picked up direct.

Everyone has different needs, wants and opinions. However, I don't think it is fair to trash something you haven't even tried and insult FMIC. A lot of R&D and market research went into these things.

I have owned lots of all tube bass amps. But I wouldn't drag any of them around to gigs anymore.


No mud slinging, just pointing out an observation.

I don't doubt there are bassists out there who like the TV Series bass amps for what they are. That's just fine by me.

Saying there are plenty of old vintage amps lying around for us tube guys/gals to use is not even close to reasonable.

I am absolutely astounded when I hear some bass players get angry when other bass players express their frustration at the status quo in bass amplification and their desire for something that every guitar player has access to. I started out on bass playing a 50 watt Fender tube half stack in the 70's. Pardon me if I just haven't developed the taste for solid state bass amp gear. Hybrid stuff is good but falls WAY short of all tube amps.

Is there a reason why (if any) that you don't want to see Fender produce a tube version of the TV Series bass combos for bassplayers like myself and others on and off this board?


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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:38 pm
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mdionne001 wrote:

I am absolutely astounded when I hear some bass players get angry when other bass players express their frustration at the status quo in bass amplification and their desire for something that every guitar player has access to. I started out on bass playing a 50 watt Fender tube half stack in the 70's. Pardon me if I just haven't developed the taste for solid state bass amp gear. Hybrid stuff is good but falls WAY short of all tube amps.

Is there a reason why (if any) that you don't want to see Fender produce a tube version of the TV Series bass combos for bassplayers like myself and others on and off this board?


I'm not angry at all.

Re-read my point 6. I am not at all opposed to an all Tube TV Bassman at all. I would not be surprised to see one introduced in the future. I would not be unhappy about that at all. I just don't think I personally would buy one because of the weight and price.


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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:15 am
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mdionne001 wrote:
I would like to mention that my interest in the all-tube low-med power range bass amps stems in part to my early experiences with my first new Fender bass amp. It was a 1973 Fender Bassman-50 1x15 half-stack, silver faced amp. Maybe for large or some even medium venues that lacked PA support, those weren't the best bass amps to use. But I never played large venues with it. And for my purpose it worked and sounded great. I and a number of other people on another forum were hoping the TV series amps were a step to bring back those amps (albeit with improvements).

The point is that most bass players don't play large venues (or even gig for that matter). They play bass for the love of the instrument and for the joy it brings them. Some of us (probably more than Fender realizes) would find great joy (and tonal bliss) with a Fender built all-tube bass combo (similar or even better then Ampeg's Fliptop). :wink:


Peace!


Mike


I had a 50W (circa 66) Bassman and 2 X 12 cab that I got mainly for guitar back in 68. But I often enough used it on bass in small jazz club settings (I was in a trio) and in coffee houses (I sometimes backed up local folkies on bass and electric guitar). It had a very nice, deep bass tone as long as you didn't push the amp too hard.

I'd use it running at around 5 (from distant memory) and it had more than enough power for say a lounge (seating for maybe 40 people between bar and tables) or comparably sized coffee house.

I think this is what quite a few of us are talking about. There are many LA area venues where something in a 50 - 75W range would be more than enough. I'm sure that's true elsewhere too. For comparison, I now use a Bassman 210/250 with a tube pre in the FX loop ... that does a decent job of warming and fattening the tone, but not the same as a tube power section.

So here's another vote for an < 100W all tube combo. And I'd like a 2 X 12 option too ... more versatile than a 1 X 15 for those of us who double on 6 string but want more depth than a 2 X 10 gives.


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