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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:49 pm
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arth1 wrote:
lomitus wrote:
While the 57/58's are decent mics, the fact of the matter is that they're OUTDATED...for the same money today, you can do A LOT better.

The same can be said for Telecasters and Stratocasters too.

Guitars, amps, microphones - they're tools.
If you look in my other tool chest, you won't find fancy self-tightening wrenches, carbon fiber hammers and battery powered levers with LCD displays. You find stuff that do the job well enough and that I can rely on. Five years down the road. Or ten. They're tools. I don't need to worry about them. Sure, other fancy stuff can go on top of that to make life more pleasant, but when push comes to shove, I trust the hammer I can make a new shaft for, the pencil that doesn't dry out, and the Telecaster that might not have a built-in KAOSS pad and midi, but which reliably produces sound.
And while I like other mics that I have, and they produce better sound than my Shures, it's not something I will ever place all my faith in. The old workhorses work, and work well enough. Chances are that Shure SM57/58s were good enough for a substantial portion of the albums you love and concerts you went to. It doesn't have to be perfect. It has to be good enough.
I for one won't criticize the choice of far better musicians than me, and claim that their albums would have been better with a better sounding mic. Good enough. By far.



So, in your opinion we should all still be recording on vinyl or analog reel to reels (or 4 track cassettes) instead of computers these days? How about effects pedals...goodness...why would anyone want a distorted guitar sound? And wow...what's with this whole stereo thing...wasn't mono "good enough"? And hey...what's with that new fangled FM radio stuff...shouldn't we still be listening to AM instead? And what do people need hundreds of cable TV stations for...weren't the 3 networks more than sufficient? For that matter, a color TV just seems totally ridiculous...an old 19" black and white set with "rabbit ears" worked just fine. And it seems to me that yes, even Strats and Teles have in fact evolved over the years.

You seem to be trying to take this totally out of perspective, apparently for the sake of a brand name. As far as reliability and proven performance, while I won't comment on Audix as I don't know much about their history, however Sennheiser...seriously. Seems to me with those classic recordings and concerts you mention, that many of those folks use Sennheisers as well...I just can't see why that's a brand that would be so undeserving of your "faith". For that matter, several of my CADS have been around the block MORE than a few times, both in studio and on stage...they're just as solid as any Shure ever built and they sound quite decent. We're not talking about those $10 Nady Star mics that people use for karaoke night...as far as build quality goes, most of the mics in the $100 range are usually just as rugged and sound considerably better, then those outdated Shures.

You also seem to be over-looking the fact that one of the main reasons those Shure's were used so widely was simply because there weren't a whole lot of affordable options back in the day that produced reasonable quality. Back in the 60's and 70's you had the high end recording mics (including a few ribbons and condensors - brands like UA, Royer and such) which most people outside of a studio just couldn't afford. You had a few mid level mics, like the Sennheiser 421's, which a lot of pros used, but were still beyond the reach of the average working stiff, you had the Shures and wow...you had Radio Shack "High Balls"...given a choice between a Highball 2 and an SM58, yea...I'd take the SM58 as well, LOL!!! That said, you also have to consider that those famous recordings and such....a great deal of that was also cutting edge for it's day. Consider The Beatles...did they not embrace technology such as stereo and multitrack recording when it came around? Did Pink Floyd not recording in "digital" long before CD's were around? It seems to me that a great many of those classic artists actually took advantage of new techs as they emerged...they embraced it, rather that relying on the outdated tech and techniques of the past.

And as far as your tool analogy goes, while I do agree that guitars, amps, mics, etc., are indeed "tools", given a choice between an old hand saw and a modern laser guided power saw...particularly if they were priced the same...I'd take the power saw EVERY time. And that's what we're talking about here...sure a rusty old steel body Craftsman power saw is a "good tool"..I have one and yes, the damn thing STILL works, however if it were priced the same as a contemporary Rigid or Delta or Dewalt or Makita, for most reasonably educated tool users, that old Craftsman would simply be a SERIOUS waste of money! $10 - $20 at a garage sale? Fine. $100 - $150? No. Just because a tool was "good enough" 30, 40 or 50 years ago, does NOT mean it's the best tool for a similar job today, particularly when you factor in price. -IF- an SM58 were more realistically priced, say in the $40 - $60 range, I could be more forgiving, however for the $100 - $110 they go for today, they're just not THAT good compared with the competition.

You're welcome to your opinion and I'm sorry if my pragmatic sensibilities some how offend you, however in this case I can't help but find your loyalties and priorities to be rather misplaced. Let me make clear that I've never said Shure's are "bad" mics, however the fact of the matter is that for the money, a person looking for the best bang for the buck CAN do better these days. Again, the SM57s/58s -ARE- outdated tech...just because you're favorite recording artist from the 70's may have used one, does NOT by any stretch of the imagination suggest they're the best mics for people to use today.



That said, to the OP and anyone else concerned, my advice, as always, is to shop around and compare products side by side WITH YOUR OWN EARS. For the same price, personally I feel the e835 is a MUCH better mic than an SM58 (for all the reasons already stated), however as they say around here, YMMV...let your own ears decide which is right for you.


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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:21 pm
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arth1 wrote:
lomitus wrote:
While the 57/58's are decent mics, the fact of the matter is that they're OUTDATED...for the same money today, you can do A LOT better.

The same can be said for Telecasters and Stratocasters too.

Guitars, amps, microphones - they're tools.
If you look in my other tool chest, you won't find fancy self-tightening wrenches, carbon fiber hammers and battery powered levers with LCD displays. You find stuff that do the job well enough and that I can rely on. Five years down the road. Or ten. They're tools. I don't need to worry about them. Sure, other fancy stuff can go on top of that to make life more pleasant, but when push comes to shove, I trust the hammer I can make a new shaft for, the pencil that doesn't dry out, and the Telecaster that might not have a built-in KAOSS pad and midi, but which reliably produces sound.
And while I like other mics that I have, and they produce better sound than my Shures, it's not something I will ever place all my faith in. The old workhorses work, and work well enough. Chances are that Shure SM57/58s were good enough for a substantial portion of the albums you love and concerts you went to. It doesn't have to be perfect. It has to be good enough.
I for one won't criticize the choice of far better musicians than me, and claim that their albums would have been better with a better sounding mic. Good enough. By far.

:shock:
Oh. My. Lord.
I agree with arth1 about something. :P

Actually, I will add a caveat...I am not against other mics...I have owned, performed with, recorded with and been appreciative of:
(the ones with the * I did not own)

Shure SM57, SM58, Beta 58*, Super 55 (which is a Beta 58 in retro-50s-style Brian Setzer's clothing), PE 525
Unisphere A, 520D, 548 Unidyne IV and Commando 420. (all good for different reasons; I used many/most of them for harmonica, but also vocals, amp-mic-ing and room mic-ing).

MXL 990 and 991 (990 is especially good for recording vocals...and cheap!)

Astatic 77a (cool "Elvis" style mic) and 200s (best harp mic I've ever owned)...both are vintage, too!

Sennheiser e609 Silver (ok, easy to use, good sound quality, but not durable and that's why it was sold)...

Realistic (Yes, Radio Shack) 33-905 (decent for bright vocals or harmonica...but not very rich or bassy; good for a soprano or also singer...also, it looks cool, as it is a retro-50`s style mic).

Multiple EV mics*--old and new. I had a friend who had a collection of Electro Vox mics that would make you drool, but they were hit-and-run -miss. Some were good, some were great and some were very meh.

The thing is this; you can try a dozen different mics (obviously I have, and I still own over a half-dozen), but if a person wants a good-to-great quality mic that is durable and won't break the bank, it's hard to beat an SM57 or SM58...there's a reason they're both industry standards...they're that good.

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:11 am
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
...there's a reason they're both industry standards...they're that good.


I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree with that (obviously)..."industry standard" aside (which is a different issue in and of itself...mainly due to comments I've already made here and elsewhere, as well as a lot of people like those seen in this tread), I've simply seen/used too many mics in recent years that are in fact better than the SM57's/58s. When I started building my mic collection a number of years back, I did a lot of side by side comparisons and considering all the hype those mics get, I was bit surprised at how lacking they are compared with other competitively priced mics. Again, not saying they're bad,..I'm not surprised people like them, however they're just not the best any more.


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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:46 pm
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So I ambled in to my local Tom Lee music store and talked to a guy who really seemed to know his mikes. I ended up walking out with a Steinberg UR12 interface (that included Cubase A1, that I have so far failed to be able to download), an XLR cord and an Audio-Technica AT 2020 condenser microphone. I've barely started to play with it but so far am pleased with the sound. Although maybe not as bulletproof as the 57/58s, it is not a stage mic so it shouldn't be a problem. And the much larger condenser produces a very nice ambient sound in both voice and acoustic guitar (so far). I've got 30 days to return it if I don't like it for any reason so I figured what the heck. Now if I could only Jump through the hoops to get my Cubase! :(

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:51 pm
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There's a lot of great mics out there and one should start to pick and choose the best tools for the job. I have a few 57's and 58's and they are what they are, not bad. The Sennheiser 609 and 906 are not bad for recording a guitar cab. They are a little snappier than a Shure SM75 and imo sound less natural, but not in a bad way.

What you push all these mics with is just as important as the mic. So grab some nice tube pre amps.

IMO, the electric guitar is one of the easiest instruments to record. It's a totally different games with acoustic instruments, especially vocals. What works for one person, might not work for another. Michael Jackson's vocals on Thriller were recorded with a Shure SM7B, but I bet you dollars to donuts that they ran some real nice preamps and compressors on that mic during the recording.

Home recording has given everyone the upper hand to sit back and create some very good music with very little. And maybe a little false sense of hope.

Grab a SM75, a couple of ribbon mics, and a large condenser. Start small, and not to pricey and work your way around that and see what works.

Audio Technica 4040 is a bit nice than the 2020, but it's also 3 times the coin.

On that note, I have had more Harman Kardon products go belly up on my over the years than any other stuff I have owned. DBX, AKG mics, ect. Seems like it has a lifespan of 10 years. Some of my fav stuff is the German made Beyer Dynamics mics. The Beyer MC834 is a sweety and has held up very nicely. M130 is very handy.

There's new mics out there and there's some classic stuff. It all has it's place in the tool box


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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:34 pm
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I've borrowed an SM57and really liked the results--I also recently bought an ART Mtwo mic--it's a condenser so it needs a power source, but my digital recorder will power it--so that wasn't an issue.
I got it marked down considerably (I think it might be discontinued.)
I am quite happy with it as well. But regular price it would have been more than an SM57, so I got that one now & plan to get an SM57 later.

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Last edited by zontar on Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:56 am
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I have a BLUE USB mic that works well for some applications. Plug & play.

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:11 pm
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Since you ask specifically for mics that "don't cost that much," maybe look at these Shure knock-offs that get really good reviews! I can get one in the US for $40 shipped -- nice price! Anyway, I don't have one, but am consider adding one to my "home studio" for recording acoustic guitar (a cheap condenser mic would be better, but my place has too much ambient noise so I'm better off trading some performance for the exclusion of ambient noise).

Anyway, check these out. All reviews are favorable:

http://blog.marwoodwilliams.com/microph ... and-es-58/

Also, regarding the legacy of the Shures, yes, many many great recordings were done with them, but you using them won't necessarily make your recordings great. In a very informal comparison, I think I like my Sennheiser e385 a little more than the SM58, but if I had the SM58 I'd just use it and not worry about it. Sometimes the legends just aren't that important.

For hooking up to the computer, my teenage son got a Blue Yeti and it was very good and interfaced with his PC without any issue. They're $100 and essentially include the interface.

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:17 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
Since you ask specifically for mics that "don't cost that much," maybe look at these Shure knock-offs that get really good reviews! I can get one in the US for $40 shipped -- nice price! Anyway, I don't have one, but am consider adding one to my "home studio" for recording acoustic guitar (a cheap condenser mic would be better, but my place has too much ambient noise so I'm better off trading some performance for the exclusion of ambient noise).

Anyway, check these out. All reviews are favorable:

http://blog.marwoodwilliams.com/microph ... and-es-58/

Also, regarding the legacy of the Shures, yes, many many great recordings were done with them, but you using them won't necessarily make your recordings great. In a very informal comparison, I think I like my Sennheiser e385 a little more than the SM58, but if I had the SM58 I'd just use it and not worry about it. Sometimes the legends just aren't that important.

For hooking up to the computer, my teenage son got a Blue Yeti and it was very good and interfaced with his PC without any issue. They're $100 and essentially include the interface.


I use a Blue Snowball, but the Yeti is also a nice plug & play mic.

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:47 pm
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One thing that may work for you that, at times, may not work in a pro studio situation is that one's choice of equipment will be more personal. Vocalists can be found carrying their own microphone from gig/session to another.

While it is true that a producer, engineer, or artist may desire a certain sound or effect, there are restrictions to be considered.

Both audio and video production may be divided amongst production studios, and having similar equipment is often desired if not necessary. Video would have the same imaging, and audio would have the same sound, for example. Better, or different may or may not be useful in this case.

This is why many manufacturers try to get the contracts to use their equipment over their competitors. Replacing older gear just doesn't come into the scenario for all cases. Some studios are analogue, some are analogue/digital, some are all digital. Various grades of quality can be found across the board. And yes, LPs are back. Some at the request of the artists who use the discs themselves.

IMHO if you use a different mic than others it's a personal choice and all is well; but, commonly found studio mikes can be for any number of reasons.

As for digital, standards are still in their infancy and analogue is mature. Both have their place and the gap is shrinking.

"Trust your ears". +1

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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:15 pm
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The software that came with my mic was so confusing to download and get running, that when I realized it had taken over my sound as well, (I had no sound other than recorded sound), I decided to take it all back. I ended up with the same mic (2020) but straight USB. Plugged that sucker in and it works perfectly! And I got my sound sorted out after I removed all the software.

It's too nice a day to play with it right now. I'm going for a mountainbike ride to remedy all the confusion and frustration. :D

Peace
Gridlok


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Post subject: Re: Suggestions for Microphone?
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:46 am
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gridlok wrote:
The software that came with my mic was so confusing to download and get running, that when I realized it had taken over my sound as well, (I had no sound other than recorded sound), I decided to take it all back. I ended up with the same mic (2020) but straight USB. Plugged that sucker in and it works perfectly! And I got my sound sorted out after I removed all the software.

It's too nice a day to play with it right now. I'm going for a mountainbike ride to remedy all the confusion and frustration. :D

Peace
Gridlok


Very cool Gridley 8)

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