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Post subject: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:42 am
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Being able to play by ear. Can you do it? How did you find out you could? I can play a song after just hearing it as long as it’s one of those songs with 3 chords in the 1,4, 5th seventh. C, F and G7th for example. Anything more complex than that and I have never been able to determine what to play. I used to play and sing with a friend who had an ear that was amazing to me. We’d be trying to learn a song and I couldn’t figure out what the chord was. He would sing 3 different notes and I could find individual notes on the guitar. Once I had 3 or 4 notes I had enough knowledge of chords to find a chord that worked. But I never could have found the chord on my own. He could also hear the harmonies of the vocals in a song. He overdubbed himself singing Seven Bridges Road (Eagles) after learning 4 harmony parts. He never had any music training at all. When I had sheet music to show me the chords I could figure out little deviations most of the time. But on my own I am normally lost. And in the past I was playing stuff with very few effects in the guitar. When I listen to a guitar with a lot of distortion it’s even harder to find it. I had a friend in the 10th grade who played guitar and he could hear music and then play it.

So, are some people just stuck not hearing and identifying notes so they can play them? Can you teach yourself or be taught by others? Maybe I’m tone deaf. I can hear when I’m playing something right and I can hear when I’m playing it wrong. What I have trouble with is finding a chord myself. Or sometimes even a single note. I have thought maybe with enough musical knowledge I could eliminate some chords or notes. I could limit my searching by staying in a scale or in a set of chords that are musically standard like the 1, 4, 5th seventh chords.

I’ve thought another thing might be an issue. Is my guitar “in tune” with the song being played. When I was very young (1970’s) my turntable had an adjustable speed. When I set it correctly and tuned the guitar correctly and already knew the chords in a song it sounded good. But if I made the turntable go a little faster or slower it would throw off the tuning. Another thing is knowing what tuning the guitarist was using when they recorded a song. If I have trouble when all instruments are tuned to the normal “standard” can you imagine me finding something on a guitar tuned differently?

The voice is an instrument. I can hear someone say “I want a sandwich”. I can then repeat the sentence. I have known people who could hear a guitar riff or set of chords and know how to find it on the guitar neck. And it seemed so easy.

I bought a set of CD’s several years ago that would teach you how to play by ear. I remember starting the course and thinking I was hearing the notes better because I wasn’t hearing if a note was higher or lower (frequency) but the note had a “sound” that made it different than others. The guy who put the CD’s out referred to the different sounds by color. He even suggested getting a set of crayons to use. That’s about all I remember about that. I was always working and ended up not getting past the first or second lesson. There were two sets of lessons. On revolved around finding individual notes and then another was about finding a chord by being able to hear the different notes in a chord being played. I don’t have those CD’s any more.

Having access to the internet and forums like this one is the first time I’ve had the opportunity to get input from so many different people with different experiences. Of the few people I’ve known who playing by ear came easy to they would just look at me NOT being to play by ear and that was it. They didn’t even know how to explain how they were able to do it.

Any ideas? Can I “learn” to recognize music and then play it? I’m 57 years old. So it’s not like I have a lifetime to benefit from the ability to play by ear. On the other hand I’m not quite in the grave either. This is a weird age to be. :( :D

Jack


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:23 am
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Whether or not it's a "gift" that someone can just learn by ear or not is a great question Jack H.

It's all I've ever known how to do. I was a drummer for 20 years and when I sold my last drum set I was intrigued by the bass and got one from a friend. He showed me some of the basics like what notes the strings were and how the frets worked in reference to the notes. I learned to tune my bass to the cars song "Just What I Needed" back in those days, once I had the E string I tuned the rest from there, very scientific. :D

From there I just picked songs and plunked away until things made sense. Maybe because of the years playing drums I had the internal "timing" thing down so that made it easier, I don't know? It certainly became easier over time because you could guess, if this is an A than maybe there's an E coming up? Use the octaves, etc. I remember thinking I was a god when I figured out the classic blues walking pattern, ha!

Never learned to read a note, play in two bands now so I must have gotten it down somewhat. It will be interesting to read other people's opinions on this.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:31 am
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In addition to the ability to hear a note or chord and finding it easily on an instrument is the people with "perfect pitch". I've never seen anyone do it but I've heard there are people who you can say "sing an A" and with no instrument or anything to compare to they just sing a note. Then you play an A on the guitar and it's dead on. You could use a person like to to tune an instrument instead of an electronic tuner or even tuning one string from another like on guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:41 pm
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I used to beat my head against the wall because I can't read music (aside from some percussion notation). I always wanted to and still do. But, as I get older I find the need to read music less important.

After discovering that James Taylor was in the same boat as me, I grew to accept it.

Interestingly enough there are many great legends of music who, without learning to read music, managed to develop their art; although, it must be said that creating an original piece is one thing, playing another's work is often more demanding where reading music could IMHO be a benefit. In fact, a great deal of music is created by a non reader and penned by another. This is similar to writing a book for another.

I have always played by ear and worked in a studio where instruments of every sort and size were available. On my off time I jammed or pounded on Vibes, Yamaha's Electone EX-42, Grands, and just about everything in between. Going to work was a treat for an 18 year old who could not afford those luxuries, and playing by ear was an advantage. Sure I could follow guitar chords in a songbook at home; but, I could never hope to follow this guy who explains the approach without notation:



YMMV

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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:12 pm
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When I started playing I was 13 so I just wanted to play I didn't want any part of lessons. Coming from a very musical family I picked it up quickly and developed the ability to find the key and stay somewhere in it. I spent hours trying to figure out songs (I was a big RUSH fan) I managed to learn to play most of them (there was no internet or youtube to watch)
Several years ago I started playing with a guy who went through the books, learned the chords scales and basic theory . He knows hundreds of songs and learns new ones weekly. So while jamming with him he calls the chords and I follow him. When its time for the leads, he struggles. I can pretty much walk a lead over anything I hear not knowing the mode or name of the scale. We are a great example of the question what's better playing by ear or educated. Playing with him showed me from the performance perspective I'm really lacking, if your playing at the campfire i'm not the guy. If you want leads cut on your song that's me. He is trying desperately to learn the improvised lead thing Im trying to help him, but I can do little more the show him what I do. What he needs is "hey man Start in a dorian or try it in minor 7th" or something else I know nothing about. I know very little of that stuff. However he can easy teach me a new song (provided i know the cords) easily, hell I played for 35 years and he is still showing me cords I dont know, its embarrassing. And Inow realize my short coming, i am uneducated. Most great players (of any instrument) studied theory, learned all the chords and scales and how they work together.
Here is the rub, anyone can learn all there is about the guitar and even become quite proficient, but if they don't have an ear for it there sound is lacking. And While you can teach theory you can teach the natural gift of an ear for it. That being said, I personally have bits and pieces of music that I have been trying to decode for years. The intro part of Spirit Of Radio comes to mind ,I finally broke down and opened a book, wala there it is, years of trying wasted playing it by ear.
I posed this question to my father( a very well known jazz musician) once and his reply said everything.
"The best musicians have a great natural ear but also study technique relentlessly.. However if I had to choose I would take the ear every time."
Me too.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:35 pm
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I went to school with a lady who played the cello, and had "perfect" pitch. She said the drawback to that was it made it more difficult to transpose. To her, the same song in two keys were two different songs.

I guess I'm the opposite. I can't tell whether something is in D or A if my life depended on it, but I have no problems picking the chord progressions and intervals, and transpose things without much effort.

Different people, different.. uhm.. pitches.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:01 am
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As far as being able to read music goes, I look at it like this, do you have to know how to read to tell a good story?

We all should try to learn as much as we can, but the main thing is enjoying what you are doing. If learning theory is something you hate, forget it. Just play and enjoy yourself.

About being tone deaf, if you can listen to a tune and hum it back you are not tone deaf.

Your ear is something most people can develop, you may not have a natural talent for recognizing notes but you can learn it. Like anything else it takes time and practice. When I first started playing guitar I did not think I would ever be able to form a F bar cord! :)

8)

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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:44 am
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omar59 wrote:
When I first started playing guitar I did not think I would ever be able to form a F bar cord! :)

After three generations, I still don't think I will ever be able to reliably form a non-barred F-chord. The bar versions are easy, but the cowboy-F is the one that no amount of practice seems to help with.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:39 am
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omar59 wrote:
We all should try to learn as much as we can, but the main thing is enjoying what you are doing. If learning theory is something you hate, forget it. Just play and enjoy yourself.


Your ear is something most people can develop, you may not have a natural talent for recognizing notes but you can learn it. Like anything else it takes time and practice. When I first started playing guitar I did not think I would ever be able to form a F bar cord! :)

8)


With music I think enjoying yourself is as important as anything else. I may be able to train my ear over time. I got two sets of CD's about 15 or 20 years ago that claimed hearing tones, notes, etc. was learnable. Even if you didn't have a natural ability for it. One set focused on individual notes and the more advanced set dealt with multiple notes at once. Chords. I could see how the exercises could work but I never did get through the courses. I think of notes as being higher or lower than another. The emphasis in the lessons on the CD's was more of a difference in texture in notes instead of a frequency or whatever. The only example I got to was that an F# has a more twangy sound than any other note. By recognizing that sound you knew an F# was being played. According to this guy an F# is harder for a piano tuner to get right than the rest of the strings. It's because of the twangyness of the sound. That's how I remember it but I'm not sure I got the real message. He also wanted the students to associate a note with a color. You are even supposed to get a set of crayons and have a different color for each note. I think that was more for a point of reference than anything else. I think the idea was if you couldn't hear the difference in sounds naturally, you could associate another sense with different sounds. The other sense was vision. I did find myself being able to hear the difference in an F#. I think I could anyway. A strong suggestion was to have a friend play a note to see if you could identify it. That was so you didn't know what was being played.

Anyway, the only future I have with music is enjoyment. I'm not trying to become a better musician for any other reason than for my own enjoyment playing along with music on my computer. Instead of watching tv, I can sit here and play songs I like along with the recording. THat's not half as good as playing with other people but it's a start. We'll see. And with the internet we have access to about any info we need. If I can't learn a song by ear or even with the sheet music I can find a guitarist on youtube who teaches how to play it. I did find one guy who asks for money for more advanced lessons. I have no problem with paying what he asks if it would help. The price is very reasonable and less than the local music store charges. But I'm in no hurry. I am not trying to prepare for a life making others happy with music. Just me. Then again, I'm 57 years old. Maybe I should be in a hurry. :lol: I haven't picked up a guitar in around 10 years. Now after a week or 10 days my fingers are waking up faster than I expected. I'm playing along with my computer some of the old songs I used to play and I'm enjoying it. As far as playing by ear I'm not going to worry about it too much. It doesn't seem like anyone has a pill I can take that puts my ear in tune any better than it is. When you are looking for something it seems harder to find than when you stop looking. Maybe I've always put too much effort into hearing a note or chord. Maybe if I relax about it I'll hear more clearly.

Jack


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:15 am
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My ear was terrible when I first started out, it's a lot better now, though. I wasn't naturally inclined as a musician, although I was always creative in some way or another. My breakthrough was learning the movable major or minor scales on the fret board for my bass that I got from a bass scale book. When I learned that, it was easy to construct bass lines to follow a key or chord progression. As I gained experience, I learned other things, too. Blues scales, 7th's, (which you can use blues scales on,) etc. As far as reading standard notation, I can sort of hack my way through it, if I can remember All Cows Eat Grass, or what ever that trick was to remember the notes on the staff. :P Still, theory would be something I wouldn't seriously mind learning properly. Why not? It's just a matter of taking the time to do it and finding the right resources.

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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:16 pm
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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:14 pm
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A very good way to start. Love those video's of 5 year old's singing popular tunes. "Mommy does it so I can do it too." :lol: 8)

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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:55 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
A very good way to start. Love those video's of 5 year old's singing popular tunes. "Mommy does it so I can do it too." :lol: 8)


Mommy also drives a car, wears high heels and flirts with uncle Elmore. Just saying...

Anyhow, I'm a bit worried about kids now growing up with autotune. Especially blues and soul suffers, when intentionally bending a tone out of tune (whether singing or playing) becomes impossible. The kids must think that there are only 12 possible tones.


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:41 pm
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PaulLF wrote:
Still, theory would be something I wouldn't seriously mind learning properly. Why not? It's just a matter of taking the time to do it and finding the right resources.


I have thought even if my ear isn't trained to hear and then be able to play something can you learn to play something you've heard by knowing what chords could be played at any given point in a song based on music theory. Meaning could I come up with a list of possible chords based on the melody or knowing the key the song is in and knowing what chords would fit and which ones wouldn't?

Very simple example: If a 3 chord song is in the key of C and I know that chords F and G fall into the 1-4-5 category I could limit my search to that. Then I wouldn't be trying other chords only to be able to say "that sounds really bad". My ear is usually accurate enough for songs like this. Then with a little time maybe I could expand to hearing 7ths, diminished sounds, etc.

Jack


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Post subject: Re: Playing music by ear
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:08 am
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Jack H.

Unfortunately playing by ear takes time to develop......some of us longer than others. There's just no short cutting experience.
But here's something that should help you. It's the Nashville Numbering System and it's based off of the circle of 5th's. When you hear that "off" chord it gives you a clue of which chords to look for in a given key. When you find that chord, then you will have to listen closely to determine whether it's a major, minor, etc.....
Just keep at it.
Through the years progress has seldom come smooth and gradual for me. Many times I seem to grow stale and then I finally bust through that wall.
Hopefully this helps, good luck to you and don't give up.

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