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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:50 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Some goofball posted this on the wrong thread accidentally. Don’t ask. I don’t know the guy. I heard he’s got a bag on his head. 8)
——————————————————
Blue Notes wrote:
It’s working out really good guys, definitely a lot better than without. I’ve recorded about eight songs with it so far, and I can tell a noticeable difference for the better. I won’t record my vocals without it now, and I’m thinking about using it in front of my amps or getting this one here.

Image
Interesting idea. I wonder how that would work with an open backed amp by using it in the back. I bet that would give all kinds of possibilities. Maybe good, maybe not. :P Obviously, reverb and decay and the sort would definitely come into play (no pun intended). Clean may be ideal. Hmm?

I’m thinking I could use it to reduce any possible furnace or A/C bleed in the distance. No biggie. I know of some pretty well known studios that had a truck or other culprit on their recordings. For the most part, a savvy engineer or producer will pick that up and futz around with it; but, there’s always the chance of an odd gremlin that has other ideas.

Then you also added the link to show the traps using the reflector. Whoo boy, I have the vocals, amp, keyboard, and drums screaming at me now. :lol:
Nice grab Blue Notes. A truly useful tool. I don’t know if my vocals would improve though. :?
Thanks, for the update. :D
FSB


I kinda like the "Audio Verite" concept of recording where even if there is some type of ambient noise on a track than so be it. Someone pointed out to me if you listen to "Carmelita" by Warren Zevon you can hear the hotel room AC in the background.

Granted I've been listening to a lot of Hip Hop lately and the recording quality on a lot of it has kind of a grimy quality that I dig. Almost like old Delta Blues.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:39 am
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Rev J wrote:

I kinda like the "Audio Verite" concept of recording where even if there is some type of ambient noise on a track than so be it. Someone pointed out to me if you listen to "Carmelita" by Warren Zevon you can hear the hotel room AC in the background.

Granted I've been listening to a lot of Hip Hop lately and the recording quality on a lot of it has kind of a grimy quality that I dig. Almost like old Delta Blues.

C/S,
Rev J
I can’t disagree there. Rev. I think both concepts work depending on the situation and the performer or engineer.

There’s plenty of live concert recordings that are pure junk and, as mobile recording took a serious turn in the right direction, things changed. Sometimes, in simpler times, tricks of the trade, like sweetening with applause or crowd noise covered problems for example. Today, noise reduction, gates, compressors, hardware, software, and more kicks it up a notch. Multitrack recording is common (at the very least 2 track) on a gig. You might be a one man band and recording engineer simultaneously, ready for post production after the gig. It wasn’t always that easy. If you’re lucky, in house will have the full monty.

I used to listen to the Met opera live on Saturdays while working at home. Coughs in the audience, and footsteps across and towards center stage were standard fair and added to the mental picture of the performance.

My wife’s cousin lit for the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, and we got freebies for performances. The symphony was great . . . the pounding of the ballet shoes not so much. Much better televised or filmed with no foot tapping on the stage to interrupt the music. IMHO.

But, I get what you mean, and I have some great recordings as such. The few binary ones I grabbed for sampling are especially good. As simple as your ear. Binary recordings work best in mostly a live performance or with an environmental recording rather than from a studio which would give less advantage acoustically. It should be noted that in an anechoic chamber performers often ask for headphones to give them the characteristics and feeling of not being in a non reflective chamber.

If I had pluses to offer for the Reflexion filter and/or similar they are that you know what you get with no surprises, it may keep backup singers or supporting musicians happy avoiding a possible retake because of foreign noise, and it lessens the need to process and fix a problem which, for professional needs, comes down to money from a studio sense.

Audio Verite is only as good as the micing, environment, performer, and producer/engineers. Of course, that holds true for any recording. I think both can miss their mark if not executed well. Then again . . .

Having worked with two very live sounding 90 foot studios, I know what problems can occur, and yet I also know, for example, a variety of ways to mike a set of drums or a grand piano from minimal mics to plenty of mics, and from the use of unexpected great response lavaliers to expensive overhead boom mics, plus a lot of available choices in between. Simple can be very good indeed, but not for every occasion, A lot of live disrupted sound has made the charts, and it’s obvious a lot of the controlled recordings have too. That is sure to continue.

It’s also common to add ambience to a recording later. Why golly gee, you can make digital sound like tape and if that doesn’t work you can add scratches. Might as well throw a furnace and A/C into the mix.

I like vanilla and chocolate too. :wink:

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:07 am
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FSB,

Yeah. I didn't get the registration code for Ableton Live but I got Protools downloaded from my Focusrite pack.

That said I started looking at LoFi Hip Hop production videos to get started learning the software. Mostly it's also fairly simple in terms of few elements (some type of movie dialog sample, drums, bass, ambient noise sample (usually rain), chords, old jazz sample) usually processed with some type of degraded tape simulator, Vinyl, maybe some bit crushing.

Granted a lot of it that I've heard sounds like a college kid with Fruity Loops jacking off his dorm room.

Part of my idea would be to replace the Jazz Sample with actual Jazz that I'll compose. Then kinda build off those basics.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:22 pm
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Your Lo-Fi process looks to be a great way to follow the learning curve by example, Rev’. For digital to analog tape effect it’s as close as my reel to reel over the 3 head dbx/Dolby cassette deck over the CD audio only recorder beside the PC with the DAWs and plugins. I even have a long ago used 70s Teac reverb box that I could add to the 3 head deck(s). All I need to do is add a dropout loaded or kinked or stretched tape with a little oversaturation or mismatched bias. :lol: To alter the digital sound (make it warmer and share it’s texture) many studios toss a tube preamp into the mix. I’m not there, but if I recall, there is a plug-in that tries to do that. Kinda funny if you think digital is giving us a tube simulation to go back to digital. I’ve yet to hear a toilet flush yet; although, I’ve heard some tunes that need it at the end.

When I think of all the hardware, initial cost and maintenance, I still love the operation and quirks of it. I look at replication as a stunning photo of an apple versus a real apple. Both are good, but then there is the real thing, and the real thing is not always perfect, however, it becomes a characteristic all the same. Digital audio or video is constantly striving to meet or surpass analog. Simulation can be, at times, even better than the original; but, then it becomes something else. That hardware over time could often have bought a lot of very cool software that does the trick, and then some.

The learning curve putting it all together? Well, that’s a different story. Once you learn a difficult mixer (and the same with hardware) migrating to a similar tool is fairly easy with the basics in hand. Not so with DAWs and their plugins. IMHO.

Here’s where your preferred method works well. Less is more, and over production or a poor mix of tools can be your enemy. Enjoy the audio journey, as you record with digital audio with the analog mic, Rev’. :D

FSB

I once had (at work) a demo with a giant digital disc column (similar to early slo-mo machines) that resembled the one that was used to record the audio mix for Raiders of The Lost Ark. The movie’s multitrack was included as part of the demo and lessons. But, the most interest gathered was the first pre-public release of Tetris included to give us a little fun with the mouse. I came home, told my wife, and she later came home with Tetris on a gameboy for me. I still have it. I should have paid more attention to the digital recordings. :P

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:45 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Your Lo-Fi process looks to be a great way to follow the learning curve by example, Rev’. For digital to analog tape effect it’s as close as my reel to reel over the 3 head dbx/Dolby cassette deck over the CD audio only recorder beside the PC with the DAWs and plugins. I even have a long ago used 70s Teac reverb box that I could add to the 3 head deck(s). All I need to do is add a dropout loaded or kinked or stretched tape with a little oversaturation or mismatched bias. :lol: To alter the digital sound (make it warmer and share it’s texture) many studios toss a tube preamp into the mix. I’m not there, but if I recall, there is a plug-in that tries to do that. Kinda funny if you think digital is giving us a tube simulation to go back to digital. I’ve yet to hear a toilet flush yet; although, I’ve heard some tunes that need it at the end.

When I think of all the hardware, initial cost and maintenance, I still love the operation and quirks of it. I look at replication as a stunning photo of an apple versus a real apple. Both are good, but then there is the real thing, and the real thing is not always perfect, however, it becomes a characteristic all the same. Digital audio or video is constantly striving to meet or surpass analog. Simulation can be, at times, even better than the original; but, then it becomes something else. That hardware over time could often have bought a lot of very cool software that does the trick, and then some.

The learning curve putting it all together? Well, that’s a different story. Once you learn a difficult mixer (and the same with hardware) migrating to a similar tool is fairly easy with the basics in hand. Not so with DAWs and their plugins. IMHO.

Here’s where your preferred method works well. Less is more, and over production or a poor mix of tools can be your enemy. Enjoy the audio journey, as you record with digital audio with the analog mic, Rev’. :D

FSB

I once had (at work) a demo with a giant digital disc column (similar to early slo-mo machines) that resembled the one that was used to record the audio mix for Raiders of The Lost Ark. The movie’s multitrack was included as part of the demo and lessons. But, the most interest gathered was the first pre-public release of Tetris included to give us a little fun with the mouse. I came home, told my wife, and she later came home with Tetris on a gameboy for me. I still have it. I should have paid more attention to the digital recordings. :P


Yeah, I went to school for audio production 10 years ago but haven't used any of it since. But knowing the original processes and using plugins to simulate them for example to get a funky sampled sound running into the tape simulator for that "Recorded to Tape" sound, into Vinyl for that "Pressed onto record" sound, into a bit crusher for that "Using an old/cheap sampler" sound.

In a lot of ways it's like sound design. I saw an interview with Adrian Sherwood and he said he had like 4 hours of spoken samples from TV, Movies, Radio etc.

I've been thinking about dialog types of things I'd want to sample one of them is this:



Especially the line "We're headed for social anarchy when people start pissing on bookstores."

Another is this:



"Who wants a body massage?"

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:37 am
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That sampling is pretty funky, Rev’. That’s where production turns on the after burners and leaves the head on recording behind. It’s not what you have, It’s what you do with it that counts.

There’s something to be said about simple tools and great concepts. There’s also something to be said about a plethora of fancy tools and not knowing what to do with them, Having a tool box doesn’t mean you can build a Bugatti Chiron. You don’t have to if the customer accepts less, which we see and hear all the time lately. The good stuff sometimes never comes to the showroom floor. :?
That’s where experience helps producing. I've known great producers who are basically money men. They round up the pieces and people who can get the job done. Bands and artists do it all the time. They may not be the best in the control room, but their experience with their tools, the instrument, and association is an integral part. Sometimes, it’s the arrangement that is needed to be looked at. Aircraft mechanics don’t always fly and yet some do. Leo Fender wasn’t a musician and yet he knew what was needed with help from his friends. There are great producers who are lousy hands on and great hands on who are lousy producers. There are exceptional producers and exceptional directors and engineers. Very rarely are there great producer/directors/engineers, but a lot of good ones, and then there are . . . well, I’ll leave it at that.

Me? I have a problem in that area. There are some here in the Forum that are experienced and talented players who know how to and do get what they want. I know or, at least feel what I want, have proven creativity and experience to draw on, but my age, time on, and lack of guitar training and practice is a disability. I get by pretty well with frustration for where I want to be, while others are in the fast lane. On the other hand, there are players here that have the technical expertise, but more is needed and sometimes not possible. We all like to sing, and some luck out with their vocal instrument. But, bottom line it’s all about fun except for those putting bread and butter on the table.

I’ve known many of my colleagues who struggled in studios here, doing it all (because we had to) with less budget and tools because we Canucks like to do more with less. Yeh, right. :roll: On the other hand, we got to share and draw from like experiences instead of working just a part of the whole. Much like home recording, but on a professional level with professional facilities and tools.

Then they were hired to work stateside with the big boys and the big toys. There’s a long Canuck list along with our American brothers and sisters of who’s who in the music, movie, television, and theatre industry. Are they any better? Probably not, but it’s like being a new kid with a first time free rein in Toys R Us. The possibilities are endless.

That brings us to the plugins. More toys are always good. But, creativity isn’t bought and experience is still the best tool developed over time, and that includes learning from mistakes. A close scrutiny of other productions and examples are a great experience and time spent learning from others means more time doing it right the first time. You’ll find others making the same thing or reaching the same result in a variety of ways too. Pick what works for you and consider doing it to be different. If every chocolate cake tasted the same it would become tasteless after awhile. Still good, but nothing to write home about. My tip is that you keep a record of your achievement and how you got there so you can redo it again. Make sure it’s not a record that could be lost. I have a recording that I did quickly before a trip. I want to re-record some parts but I never got the chance to document it and simply having it on the DAW isn’t going to work in this circumstance. It’ll be close, maybe better, but not the same. :wink:

Mentors are always a great resource. Back in the days it was trade magazines, seminars, and rubbing shoulders. No matter how you do it, it will be fun and frustrating at the same time. However, when that final Master is finished. The magic happens. Part of the fun is getting there. Enjoy!

Chinese proverb:
A first rate soup is better than a second rate painting.

- Meaning all that razzle dazzle is nothing if it isn’t well made.; but, that simple offering can knock you off your stool if it’s great. :P
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:50 pm
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Last week after I got the software registered I ordered and Ableton book off Amazon. When I get my student loans back in good standing I plan on going back to school and taking some production classes and some music business classes.

I've also been watching some YouTube videos about electronic production. Doing my homework essentially.

Also the way I look at it before you can make a Louie XIV reproductions you should be able to build a basic coffee table.

I was thinking about the whole LoFi thing this morning. Any type of old school LoFi music be it Punk, Black Metal, or Hip Hop it was always about making do with what you had and doing the best you could with it. Now it is easier to make something Hi Fidelity out of the box and mess it up later.

I've also been looking into production history and how limitations helped define certain musical characteristics. For example some of the earlier stand alone samplers would drop out in loop mode. Since they were still working with tape instead of burning studio time razor editing before putting the vocals on they left in that glitch and worked around it. One way was to put vocal emphasis in those drop outs like on this track:



If you listen to where certain vocals come in like the opening "Don't call it a comeback!" That comes in where the sampler drops out. Throughout the whole track every time that glitch comes up it gets disguised by the vocal embellishments.

But my goal for the next year is to work my way through a Berklee College of Music Jazz Composition book and learn how to produce and put together demos of my own stuff. Eventually putting together a group to play it.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:42 pm
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That was a very good example to use, Rev’. I can see that you have the savvy and whatnot to take on your audio challenge to the next step. That’s key to success, and your proposed education and experience will get you far in laying down a solid foundation.

It’s like photography. You can learn the rules, and should. When you change from taking what I call a picture (which is anything snapped or shot) to a photograph that is planned and a precise art form based on rules, you now have something better. Can you make good things without the ground work we speak of? Sure. But, that’s called luck and, as good as it may be, it is hard to reproduce consistently. When you learn how, why, and when to break but incorporate the rules, and add your touch to call that masterpiece your own . . . then you have the chance to become great.

My kid brother belonged to the Vancouver photography club and a group would walk the streets taking photos of the same subjects. No two photos were alike, and yet all were pretty much good. Just like musicians are picky and the nuances of the guitar, amp, and effects concern them more than the audience a good job may not get the response expected, however, a bad one is sure to be noticed. That whole process of developing greatness also applies to audio and it is a tough thing to teach, if that’s possible, and even harder to learn which will be ongoing. But, if and when one gets there, you’ll know it, and so will everyone else. To put it into perspective, elaborate can be a train wreck and simple can be a symphony in the right hands. Not everyone is meant to conduct a full orchestra. :mrgreen:
Generally, I hate rap. Not the concept, but the execution. Especially, when it crosses over to a genre (like Country) and the fact that there is an acceptance of more bad than good rap to fill the radio waves, Historically, it has taken such a commercial turn that this old white dude who gives all music a shot mostly based on merit, depth, and what it has to contribute to the art of music, just thinks that, even with some of those highly rated performers, the bulk of today’s overhyped boring ill done rap shadowing truly excellent performances is, more often than not, not much more than a money making beatbox with twerkers, Fossey dancers, some good and terrible B Boys spinning, and rappers walking for the fun in the sun and the excite in the night crowd. It’s a formula that simply sells along with the fashion, name brand alcohol, photo shoots, and club appearances. That’s welcomed money in the bank to share and I’m all in for fun. I find, however, common with rap, what is a good stage performance or video that includes support with hip hoppers and alike, the song doesn’t always translate well on the radio or other media, especially if the performance hasn’t been experienced by the listener. That’s where the good separates itself from the rest of the popularity contest. Something special in rap even makes my ears perk up to take notice, but most of the time they are down. That’s only my take. YMMV. Not that hip hop beatbox is bad for rhythm (borrowed from scratching on a turntable which also works quite well); but, the very soul. grit, and beginnings of rap can now be compared to a Caucasian or Oriental or Black model on the catwalk wearing an indigenous headdress of eagle feathers. If it’s part of one’s heritage go for it. If not, well, it’s something different. This trend of anyone can do it anywhere reminds me of the 50s and 60s. Rock and Roll evolved and popular record sales changed. Pop and country singers, big bands, and others jumped on board to cash in. Some made it and some didn’t. Little Richard and Buck Ram sure did. The upper class grooved to the Bossa Nova and the Twist, hung out with the musicians, artists, and poets and considered their association to be rockin’ with the cool cats. You’ll still see that even today at the Kennedy Center. :lol: I’ll say this though, our music has been richer for it, and it can be very good indeed as long as one is true to their trade. LL Cool J hits the mark, and I don’t think race or colour prevents anyone from painting a picture, nor should it. :wink: Disney singers doing Country rap on Good Morning America? I think not. :lol:
One popular local weekly show that we had in the 60s was an amateur show. Everybody and their kid was a star. Sometimes, we could help them and our bleeding ears, by adding tricks of the trade. Often it was just too tricky :lol: One thing for sure, reverb doesn’t make you a better singer, just a different one. “More bass! Add a cough and a whistle. Bring up the applause. Cue the hound dog. Make it great! Aw fuggedsboutit. Hopeless. Coffee break. ”. :P
Then the pro steps to the mic. No need to mess around - unless you want to. :wink: “Tell the dawg to get out outa the studio. That was really good. Do it one more time for me. I know it’ll be great. That ladies and gentlemen is how it’s done”.

Good luck with your goal, Rev’. As for the rap. My thinking, lacking these days, is not to do the Elvis/Adele impersonation thing with a rap artist like most pop performers are tempted to do; although, copies have shown some success if it’s great (which is seldom). The trend might run it’s course, and you’ll get stuck in a place with no mileage left. Make it your own and do it good. We need good rap, a touch of originality, and there’s a lot of opportunities to play around with that in the recording. Cool. I get it. 8) Folliw your bliss, Rev’ :D
FSB

The previous is just a personal opinion and YMMV. Professionally, I know it’s always good to look outside your door rather than to be hold up in a box. Especially, if your box is the same as the other ones in your neighbourhood. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:36 pm
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I actually agree with you. I used the LL Cool J track as an example of making a hit/song with glitching equipment and finding workarounds.

Being a 43 year old white dude I doubt I'd have a career as a rapper. I'm more interested in what is going on in the background.

Having played bass for a little over half of my life playing, Jazz, FUnk (I always spell it with a capital FU the way George Clinton intended it), Reggae, Afro Caribbean, Punk, Metal etc. I've always felt like in different situations I had to cut off access to different influences. So really Hip Hop (and various sub genres like Jazz Hop, Chill Hop, Trip Hop etc) and the whole "Crate Digging" culture really opened my mind.

Here is a short video of one of my favorite Hip Hop albums reduced just to the samples:



So within that one album the samples run from Sun Ra, to Steven Reich, to Frank Zappa, to the Electric Prunes, to different world music, plus the usual FUnk suspects.

I want to try it without samples.

One of the other Ideas that a drummer friend and I were kicking around was to put something together like The FUnk Brothers, or The Section, or The Upsetters. Essentially one band with different lead singers.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:24 pm
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Rev J

Nice! I’ll keep it short (and that’s tough for me) :lol: so that this thread can get back on topic. :wink:
I like all that video of yours and with my love for jazz having played with trios and big bands, many of those videoed dudes hit my crosshairs, and made my playlist some time ago. Sun Ra and Miles for sure. EDM from my early moog collection to Guru Josh, Canada’s Dead Mau5, Jean Michel Jarre, Jan Hammer and beyond with some really good stuff, and some unworthy bleh.

Speaking of FUnk, I got into Afro Cuban Jazz which led to other more adventurous jazz as you speak. My job required me to listen to everything, and with a friend’s daughter active in organized hip hop competitions, I took a few lessons in the sub genres and the culture too to have a better understanding before making a choice of likes and not likes. I may be old on the outside, and a rocker on the inside, but I can see and hear the vibes on the inside, and they come from all directions.

Thanks, for pointing the others my way, R&B (a longtime fave of mine) stills shoots some good newer stuff out there. Good taste, Rev’. I can dig your direction with the Funk Bros. association and now that I can see your motivation, I say, “Go for it”. I think there’s a lot for the taking in that arena. Liking it so far.


Out!
FSB

You might like Winnipeg’s Remy Shand. I have his CD and it’s all good. I just posted him in the Funk thread. Might need a little rap. 8)
https://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php ... 8#p1245748

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:45 pm
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Yeah in terms of derailing a thread I'm pretty sure this train is in the middle of a snow field in Saskatachewan right now.

Over the past few years I started learning a little Afro Cuban stuff since I realized probably about 90% of Western Music has it's roots in in African Based music.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:45 am
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My new Strat didn't come with a hard case so I stole one from an old Strat, for it. That left my old Strat in a gig bag and it wasn't happy so I bought a nice Chromacast hard case for my new Strat and gave the old case back to my old Strat.

If anyone followed that, I give you lots of credit. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:03 am
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Marky Forrest wrote:
My new Strat didn't come with a hard case so I stole one from an old Strat, for it. That left my old Strat in a gig bag and it wasn't happy so I bought a nice Chromacast hard case for my new Strat and gave the old case back to my old Strat.

If anyone followed that, I give you lots of credit. :lol:

Makes perfect scene to me, and I would have done the same thing
mud


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:17 pm
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Marky Forrest wrote:
My new Strat didn't come with a hard case so I stole one from an old Strat, for it. That left my old Strat in a gig bag and it wasn't happy so I bought a nice Chromacast hard case for my new Strat and gave the old case back to my old Strat.

If anyone followed that, I give you lots of credit. :lol:


Yeah, the hard case that came with my Steve Bailey Jazz Bass is like carrying around the Monolith from "2001". I just throw it in an old beat to hell gig bag .

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Your last gear purchase?
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:01 am
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Received an Epiphone Les Paul Studio LT in Vintage Sunburst, plus leather strap and strap locks for it from Santa this year.


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