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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:30 am
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lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
It's not about wasting money...It has nothing to do with resources and waste as a state of mind.


Perhaps that's one of the problems with the world today...maybe it should.

Either way, I just don't get it...and I hope I never do. When all is said and done, it's still just a guitar - there's just FAR better ways that kind of money could be spent.


Again, No !! A collector spending that amount does not impact problems in the world. There's no correlation. It is not public resources therefore is not on a moral or ethical issue since it is a private individual's funds.
To that person that is the better way to spend that sum.

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:15 am
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53magnatone wrote:
lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
It's not about wasting money...It has nothing to do with resources and waste as a state of mind.


Perhaps that's one of the problems with the world today...maybe it should.

Either way, I just don't get it...and I hope I never do. When all is said and done, it's still just a guitar - there's just FAR better ways that kind of money could be spent.


Again, No !! A collector spending that amount does not impact problems in the world. There's no correlation. It is not public resources therefore is not on a moral or ethical issue since it is a private individual's funds.
To that person that is the better way to spend that sum.



Sorry, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. You're trying to defend someone choosing to spend THAT much money on a guitar...and other than age, both of those listings are guitars that that are just not all that spectacular (they're freakin' Les Pauls for goodness sake). This is simply insane and TO ME proves little other than how screwed up some people's priorities actually are. You're going under the premise that it's their money and they have the right to do whatever they want with it and to hell with the rest of the world, but from my perspective it' SHOULD be a matter of those who have the most, have the most to give and have the greatest responsibility.

I'm sorry but you're just NOT going to force me to see any sense of reason or logic to this - there isn't any beyond personal greed and petty self-satisfaction. To me this is VERY wrong and it's a very sad statement on people's beliefs and priorities...and from my perspective, it's a genuine shame that people would choose to try and defend this.

Again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one - to me this is simply WRONG and that shouldn't require any justification.


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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:00 am
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This is not about how "someone" chooses to spend their money. This is about a "collector's guitar market" ... which is NOT the guitar market just about everyone else here is in. There are similar collector markets for cars, jewelry, pottery, toys, sports memorabilia, furniture, etc. In THAT market, the value of any item is what any collector is willing to pay. It may seem exorbitant to you ... HOWEVER, if that collector wants an item, he may have to pay that much because some other collector is willing to pay just a little less than that. Values are typically based on desirability, rarity, provenance, previous selling prices, and "meaning" to the collector. Don't be so closed minded that just because it is not worth that much to you, it can't be worth that to someone else.

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:04 pm
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lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
It's not about wasting money...It has nothing to do with resources and waste as a state of mind.


Perhaps that's one of the problems with the world today...maybe it should.

Either way, I just don't get it...and I hope I never do. When all is said and done, it's still just a guitar - there's just FAR better ways that kind of money could be spent.


Again, No !! A collector spending that amount does not impact problems in the world. There's no correlation. It is not public resources therefore is not on a moral or ethical issue since it is a private individual's funds.
To that person that is the better way to spend that sum.



Sorry, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. You're trying to defend someone choosing to spend THAT much money on a guitar...and other than age, both of those listings are guitars that that are just not all that spectacular (they're freakin' Les Pauls for goodness sake). This is simply insane and TO ME proves little other than how screwed up some people's priorities actually are. You're going under the premise that it's their money and they have the right to do whatever they want with it and to hell with the rest of the world, but from my perspective it' SHOULD be a matter of those who have the most, have the most to give and have the greatest responsibility.

I'm sorry but you're just NOT going to force me to see any sense of reason or logic to this - there isn't any beyond personal greed and petty self-satisfaction. To me this is VERY wrong and it's a very sad statement on people's beliefs and priorities...and from my perspective, it's a genuine shame that people would choose to try and defend this.

Again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one - to me this is simply WRONG and that shouldn't require any justification.


Your stand point is dangerously close to one reminiscent of eastern block mentality. You cannot set a cap on personal expenditures for a collectors piece simply on the basis of...
(1) You object .... Noted but irrelevant to the main discussion point.
(2) You have formed a stand based on assumptions that a collector spending millions on a piece is/has disregarded any responsibility to the outside world of the less fortunate.
(3) That is fiction since the only relative fact we have here is of someone paying a large sum for a Gibson Les Paul which doesn't bring into relevance anything else about that person.
(4) Returning to my first sentence, by your rationale then you would decide if my own or someone else's purchases exceeded your morality factor of expenditures based on the amount.
That is well delusional and is actually contrary to the social norms within which we operate in this society. You cannot put a cap on someone else's expenses simply because you object. It is neither up to you nor I to dictate what a max price is for a purchased item. The only option we are allowed is to not buy... Period.
By the same token if I decided to go out tomorrow and purchase an Audi R8, it is not up to you to say that my paying in excess of $100,000.00 is not to be allowed. By that rationale then I should buy instead a Toyota Prius ? Which ironically has a larger carbon footprint than the sports car valued at 5 times it's acquisition price.

My point is someone spending millions or just hundreds doesn't quantify greed...
If you are really upset about exorbitant expenditures then I would suggest crunching the numbers of just how much of our GNP goes towards defense, let alone the billions sent to states that have nothing but the thought of our demise as their agenda...

In comparison to a vintage Les Paul acquired on the open auction market by a private collector. :?

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:18 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
(2) You have formed a stand based on assumptions that a collector spending millions on a piece is/has disregarded any responsibility to the outside world of the less fortunate.

If your opponent in this discussion is on the moderate left from a global point of view or the far left from a US point of view, that assumption is a given. In that case, anyone who has millions to spend can only have millions to spend by depriving others. Even if a person has spent millions on others, if he has millions left, he's not sharing according to ability.

Funnily enough, it's also disregarding your responsibility from an ultracapitalistic point of view. Any money not invested in growth is loss, and a high loss is antithesis to capitalism.

53magnatone wrote:
(3) That is fiction since the only relative fact we have here is of someone paying a large sum for a Gibson Les Paul which doesn't bring into relevance anything else about that person.

If it is a person, yes, one can infer that he or she (who are we kidding? He) has the means to spend a large sum. That in itself tells quite a few things.
However, it could be a museum purchasing it, for all we know. Assuming it's a person is the fiction here.

53magnatone wrote:
(4) Returning to my first sentence, by your rationale then you would decide if my own or someone else's purchases exceeded your morality factor of expenditures based on the amount.

You're building a straw man here. It may not be based on the amount. It could be based on a belief that buying a functional item and not using it for its function is wrong. You don't know.

53magnatone wrote:
That is well delusional and is ...

And here you proceed to knock down your own straw man. Does it feel good?

53magnatone wrote:
By the same token if I decided to go out tomorrow and purchase an Audi R8, it is not up to you to say that my paying in excess of $100,000.00 is not to be allowed.

I don't see that he said that anywhere.

53magnatone wrote:
By that rationale then I should buy instead a Toyota Prius ? Which ironically has a larger carbon footprint than the sports car valued at 5 times it's acquisition price.

That's an argument from false analogy, and a fallacy.

53magnatone wrote:
My point is someone spending millions or just hundreds doesn't quantify greed...

Is it possible for someone to have millions to spend unless there's greed involved? I find it amusing that English doesn't even have an antonym to greed that implies personal moderation. That's how ingrained greed is in our society.


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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:05 pm
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If you gave me one of those I couldn't afford the insurance on it.
And I could buy guitars &/or pieces of gear for what I'd pay for insurance.

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:11 am
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Leave it to you Arth1 that you would dissect what I posted and head off into a completely different direction.
My argument was and is relevant.
As for greed coming into play .... No ! We still don't know who or what entity the buyer was or represented.
Bringing the topic of greed into the discussion does make for a juicy content ( pathos ) but pointless to the discussion since the argument is about the control of a private person or entity(ies) spending.

As for the analogy on the Toy. Prius. It was correct as an automobile's carbon footprint is based on the materials, construction, lifetime and disposal / decay of the auto once obsolete.. I'm quite certain Toyota never proclaims those relevant facts when advertising their Prius.. Only the footprint that it creates during its functional lifetime. To be fair most manufacturers don't include the complete picture. But the findings remain the same...

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:24 am
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53magnatone wrote:
Leave it to you Arth1 that you would dissect what I posted and head off into a completely different direction.

Arth1--an argumentative debate looking for a subject. Smartest man in the room--any room. Just ask him...he'll tell you why.

Quote:
My argument was and is relevant.
As for greed coming into play .... No ! We still don't know who or what entity the buyer was or represented.
Bringing the topic of greed into the discussion does make for a juicy content ( pathos ) but pointless to the discussion since the argument is about the control of a private person or entity(ies) spending.

As for the analogy on the Toy. Prius. It was correct as an automobile's carbon footprint is based on the materials, construction, lifetime and disposal / decay of the auto once obsolete.. I'm quite certain Toyota never proclaims those relevant facts when advertising their Prius.. Only the footprint that it creates during its functional lifetime. To be fair most manufacturers don't include the complete picture. But the findings remain the same...

Without opening another debate or meaning to insult anyone who drives an electric or hybrid auto, my argument against the current technology being used is this:
A well-maintained gasoline-powered vehicle will initially leave a larger carbon footprint, but the environmental impact of manufacturing, replacing, recycling and disposing of the batteries to be used for an electric or hybrid vehicle is going to be (ultimately) much, much higher. There is no way (Using current manufacturing processes) to produce a viable, useful battery without severe ecological problems.

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:43 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
lomitus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:
It's not about wasting money...It has nothing to do with resources and waste as a state of mind.


Perhaps that's one of the problems with the world today...maybe it should.

Either way, I just don't get it...and I hope I never do. When all is said and done, it's still just a guitar - there's just FAR better ways that kind of money could be spent.


Again, No !! A collector spending that amount does not impact problems in the world. There's no correlation. It is not public resources therefore is not on a moral or ethical issue since it is a private individual's funds.
To that person that is the better way to spend that sum.



Sorry, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. You're trying to defend someone choosing to spend THAT much money on a guitar...and other than age, both of those listings are guitars that that are just not all that spectacular (they're freakin' Les Pauls for goodness sake). This is simply insane and TO ME proves little other than how screwed up some people's priorities actually are. You're going under the premise that it's their money and they have the right to do whatever they want with it and to hell with the rest of the world, but from my perspective it' SHOULD be a matter of those who have the most, have the most to give and have the greatest responsibility.

I'm sorry but you're just NOT going to force me to see any sense of reason or logic to this - there isn't any beyond personal greed and petty self-satisfaction. To me this is VERY wrong and it's a very sad statement on people's beliefs and priorities...and from my perspective, it's a genuine shame that people would choose to try and defend this.

Again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one - to me this is simply WRONG and that shouldn't require any justification.


Your stand point is dangerously close to one reminiscent of eastern block mentality. You cannot set a cap on personal expenditures for a collectors piece simply on the basis of...
(1) You object .... Noted but irrelevant to the main discussion point.
(2) You have formed a stand based on assumptions that a collector spending millions on a piece is/has disregarded any responsibility to the outside world of the less fortunate.
(3) That is fiction since the only relative fact we have here is of someone paying a large sum for a Gibson Les Paul which doesn't bring into relevance anything else about that person.
(4) Returning to my first sentence, by your rationale then you would decide if my own or someone else's purchases exceeded your morality factor of expenditures based on the amount.
That is well delusional and is actually contrary to the social norms within which we operate in this society. You cannot put a cap on someone else's expenses simply because you object. It is neither up to you nor I to dictate what a max price is for a purchased item. The only option we are allowed is to not buy... Period.
By the same token if I decided to go out tomorrow and purchase an Audi R8, it is not up to you to say that my paying in excess of $100,000.00 is not to be allowed. By that rationale then I should buy instead a Toyota Prius ? Which ironically has a larger carbon footprint than the sports car valued at 5 times it's acquisition price.

My point is someone spending millions or just hundreds doesn't quantify greed...
If you are really upset about exorbitant expenditures then I would suggest crunching the numbers of just how much of our GNP goes towards defense, let alone the billions sent to states that have nothing but the thought of our demise as their agenda...

In comparison to a vintage Les Paul acquired on the open auction market by a private collector. :?


Great post 53magnatone 8)

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:54 pm
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So here we are 6 months later in Feb 2016 and I see it's still for sale so this whole argument is pointless.
Value is based merely on what someone is prepared to pay.

Personally, I think there should be a global law, punishable by bankruptcy, prohibiting any person or organisation from purchasing any musical instrument above the value of say, $1000 UNLESS they can produce a reasonable rendition of "Smoke on the water" live... :lol:

Also, I wouldn't buy it due to the severe buckle rash on the back.
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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:52 pm
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I wondered where I'd left that plank.

Seriously. I empathise with Lomitus point. That anyone could spend that on a guitar whilst his siblings/neighbours/countrymen starve. Is an indictment on the state of humanity.
Don't forget, these people that fling that sort of money around are the same people that ship your jobs abroad for their profits. That cut your public spending. That bribe your politicians. And pay accountants a fortune so they don't have to pay half the accountants bill in tax.

There's only one war. The class war.

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:53 pm
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nikininja wrote:
... these people that fling that sort of money around are the same people that ship your jobs abroad for their profits. That cut your public spending. That bribe your politicians. And pay accountants a fortune so they don't have to pay half the accountants bill in tax.

Now where did I put that "oh, puh-leaze" emoticon?? I know it is around here somewhere ...

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Post subject: Re: Million Dollar Les Paul .... No ..... SERIOUSLY!
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:33 am
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Something, anything, is only "worth" what someone else is willing to pay.
As for the possibility that someone might be willing to pay a million bucks for a guitar, I believe PT Barnum said it best.
:idea:

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