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Post subject: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:46 pm
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Wondering if anyone knows how Fender decides to make new products or discontinue things. Do they do research or what? Do you think they ever check out forums like this to see what people are taklking about?


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:51 pm
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My opinion ;

Dicontinue products ; those gear that musics stores can't sell / don't sell enough ?

New products ?


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:52 pm
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Yes and yes.

But the bottom line is always determined by what the bean-counters say.......no profit, no product.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:56 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Yes and yes.

But the bottom line is always determined by what the bean-counters say.......no profit, no product.

Arjay


+1

like it or not, you have got to have profit.

8)

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:24 pm
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Yeah, that's the way it is, even if it's something that you might like personally.

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:51 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Yes and yes.

But the bottom line is always determined by what the bean-counters say.......no profit, no product.


The main exception being Fender Custom Shop, where masters sometimes make showroom models that aren't meant to be sold as much as being brand name advertising.
And some endorsement specials that also serve as advertising. The Beatles rosewood guitars is an example - while the guitars themselves made no money, the advertisement effect was huge.


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:10 pm
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arth1 wrote:
The main exception being Fender Custom Shop, where masters sometimes make showroom models that aren't meant to be sold as much as being brand name advertising.
And some endorsement specials that also serve as advertising. The Beatles rosewood guitars is an example - while the guitars themselves made no money, the advertisement effect was huge.


+1

Special editions such as that are not meant as production items for the hoi polloi and as such, they fall under the rubric of the advertising and marketing budgets (ie: they are intended at the outset to be loss leaders).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:38 am
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This is probably just as much opinion as fact, however I suspect a great deal of it has to do with customer demand, along with, to some smaller degree, what other companies are making that appears popular. Regardless of the degree of brand loyalty some folks may have, the bottom line is that Fender is a business. As such, I suspect they are generally interested in products that have the potential to make them some decent money and, as others have already suggested, they discontinue those products that just don't sell too well.

It's one thing for one or two individuals to say "I'd like to see such and such (insert product here)"...certainly for those one or two individuals, custom shop is an option. However for something to actually be considered for production, I suspect it's more a matter of A LOT of people saying they'd like to see such and such. I'm sure the folks in the R&D department are always hard at work, exploring new ideas, new technologies, etc., but then those ideas have to get past the front office who decides -if- there's a potential market for it, how much it would cost to put it into production and other such business related fun.

I know it's been well documented that in the early days, our founding fathers Leo & friends would go to great lengths to talk to musicians, get their feedback on his gear and would actually take the feedback seriously. That said, the Fender of today is a truly MASSIVE company, with world wide influence and impact...they just can't do things the way Leo used to. I'm sure there are still folks that have sway...if someone like Eric Clapton for example were to call the head offices and say "Hey....I just came off tour...here's an idea..."...I suspect he'd have their undivided attention. On the other hand, if Joe Garageband Smith from Yakitischmack Ohio were to try the exact same thing, it's unlikely he'd be taken too seriously...unless LOTS of other people were making the same suggestion.

Again probably just as much opinion as fact, but that seems like the way they'd do things today.


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:27 pm
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I guess I'd need to get a degree in marketing or business to truly understand. But everything every one is saying makes sense. Thanks for the replies. Peace.


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:21 pm
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Just today I was looking at a Stratocaster, white with black pick guard and knobs and asked the sales staff if it came in any other colours. Turns out, it's part of a limited run of guitars and is only available in white, black and silver.

And according to the man I spoke with, because they're a limited run of guitars, they'll quickly become collectors items. I could buy one today, hold onto it for 20 years and sell it for a huge profit. :)


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:53 am
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RI78 wrote:
I could buy one today, hold onto it for 20 years and sell it for a huge profit. :)


So what's stopping you?

Frankly, I wouldn't bet the ranch on anything made today appreciating in value.

If you're seriously interested in investment opportunities, buy gold and silver bullion coins.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:15 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
RI78 wrote:
I could buy one today, hold onto it for 20 years and sell it for a huge profit. :)


So what's stopping you?


I cannot speak for him, but a risk of being dead in 20 years, or at least not able to enjoy a profit needs to be factored into any investment equation.

And yeah, few things will appreciate more than inflation, and anyone who think they can identify what those things are are statistically likely wrong. Collectors who do it for a living will generally only invest in items that already have gone upwards in price, because gambling on new items is almost always a losing proposition.
And the biggest gains are likely going to be on things that weren't premium, so few were sold and even fewer survived. Look at the high price Fender Katana fetches now. An especially ugly Japanese Fender that didn't sell well, like a shock pink one might well be a better investment than a beautiful American. But you never know, and the best bet is that the return will be in you playing it, not in money.


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:55 am
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RI78 wrote:
I could buy one today, hold onto it for 20 years and sell it for a huge profit.

Once you buy it, it will be worth less than what you paid immediately, because it just went from "new" to "used". It will start appreciating, though ... albeit, very slowly. In ten years, it may eventually be worth what you paid. In 20 years, it may be worth a little more than what you paid.

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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:21 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
Once you buy it, it will be worth less than what you paid immediately, because it just went from "new" to "used". It will start appreciating, though ... albeit, very slowly. In ten years, it may eventually be worth what you paid. In 20 years, it may be worth a little more than what you paid.

Not necessarily. If something is announced as a limited run, people are going to buy them thinking like our friend here that it will be an investment. As a result, few of them are going to be worn out, and there will always be a surplus on the market. Unless the limited run was extremely limited, as in double digits or fewer, I find it unlikely that they'll appreciate much.

Guitars that weren't marketed as a limited run but didn't sell well for other reasons are likely going to increase far more in value. Those guitars will mostly be played the heck out of, and few will survive in great condition.
Japanese Fenders that were different from mainstream and just came out before Fender Japan closed down and thus didn't have time to sell a lot might be a good investment. There will be few of them, and even fewer owned by collectors.


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Post subject: Re: New Products
Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:20 am
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RI78 wrote:
Just today I was looking at a Stratocaster, white with black pick guard and knobs and asked the sales staff if it came in any other colours. Turns out, it's part of a limited run of guitars and is only available in white, black and silver.

And according to the man I spoke with, because they're a limited run of guitars, they'll quickly become collectors items. I could buy one today, hold onto it for 20 years and sell it for a huge profit. :)


There's an 'animal' known as an FSR [factory special request]. Guitar Center does a lot of those. I don't see a collector's value building in them. Even the Tribute Series guitars have a limit. The Music Zoo is offering one of the '06 Clapton Tribute models at $29K. It sold for $25K on Thanksgiving's Black Friday that year. It isn't even a Todd Krause build, which would give it some panache in that Krause build's Eric's guitars. I'd be surprised if the Zoo gave the seller $25K for it.

If I were purchasing for long term investment in todays markets I'd buy Apple stock. :wink: :idea:

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