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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:34 am
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John Sims wrote:
While ever there is the cheaper option people will buy it. They wont treasure it, because it was cheap, and in due course it will become land fill when something else cheap.


I disagree with your premise. Its a wide brushstroke.
Less expensive does not necessarily mean cheap ( or crap or inferior or substandard ) there is an overabundance of consumer goods that are specifically targeted as disposable. But that is more cause and effect of a consumer base that wants low cost products regardless of the downside.
Downside being that disposable products must be replaced at three times the rate of a similar but higher quality product.
Long term it adds up and that bargain basement item is now on par cost wise with its higher line competition but still not equal in terms of quality.
Automobiles are a perfect example of this. The 10 year old german car I drive with 208,000 miles is still in better shape than a 5 year old Korean car with 1/3 of that mileage. And I paid less for mine preowned than that brand new Hyundai. ( just an example not a platform for a sandbox throwing contest :wink: )

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:32 pm
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This sort of reminds me of a couple of coffee makers I have/had. I'd bought a Black and Decker coffee maker on sale a few years back, thinking that is was a decent brand name and would be better than the no name maker I got at Price Rite for $7. Nope, the Black and Decker lasted two weeks before it died and I still have that no name maker going on 10 years now. I haven't used it in a about a year, since we have another one that's bigger and seems to be working fine, but I'm sure it will work if I plug it in. It's runs slow and you might have to tap on it a little, if you're impatient, but the damn thing hasn't died yet. Couldn't tell you who made it, but I seriously doubt it was made here, especially for $7.

Because something is cheap, it doesn't mean it's cheaply made. It depends on quality control, too. Which by the way, Fender has had some issues with, at least with some of the products I've bought from them in the past, including a USA made Jazz Bass I got in 1994. This is why I'm not necessarily hung up on where things are made.

I also understand the environmental impact of disposable items, which I find to be messed up. I hate waste of any kind. They seem to make things things to be obsolete (computers, etc.) or where you can't repair them, or it's cost prohibitive to do so. At least now there are attempts to recycle and reuse stuff, which I think is good. I try to recycle as much as I can (like that coffee maker that died) but I'm not going to get into any major activism over it. The reason for that is I find it to be politically motivated and that's something I'm going to distance myself from. I'm also not going to discuss politics, either. Especially, here. Less aggravation in the long run. :P

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:43 pm
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I see now amps like the DRRI are now "Assembled In The USA"

I'm not even sure when/if that changed, but to be honest I wasn't really paying attention to it.

http://www.fender.com/guitar-amplifiers ... d=&start=1


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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:43 pm
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Assembled in the US...
I've seen that used.

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:09 pm
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No457 Snowy wrote:
I see now amps like the DRRI are now "Assembled In The USA"

I'm not even sure when/if that changed, but to be honest I wasn't really paying attention to it.

http://www.fender.com/guitar-amplifiers ... d=&start=1


Fender has a long history of outsourcing sub-assemblies to foreign entities, beginning in the mid/late '70s when main circuit boards for the silverface amps started being assembled in Mexico. My '78 Twin Reverb is one such example and aside from a re-cap and re-tube job in early 2001, it's never required a single repair. Fender subcontracted to the right people back then, who knew how to get the job done right.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:02 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
...Fender subcontracted to the right people back then, who knew how to get the job done right...

Arjay


Like so many manufacturers back then, Engineers ran Production, not Accountants... :wink:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:22 pm
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Indeed!

The Fender brand was synonymous with reliability, dependability, and durability and customers trusted those products during decades of ownership.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:50 am
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Pretty much nothing I buy is labeled "Made in USA" (much less really made there), so I couldn't care less :P

Edit: Oh wait, I forgot about almonds. And pistachios. Do those count as "made"?


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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:47 pm
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I once heard a true story of a used Rolls Royce presented to potential buyers. Well, as the story goes, that gem sat on the lot for months without a big bite. Salesmen complained to the management that they were at a standstill and simply had run out of ideas of how to empty the lot of that Rolls.

What should they do for this car which was fairly priced and in decent shape? "Raise the price considerably", said the manager. The car was gone within a week!

It seems that a higher price gave the impression that it was a better deal. The only thing that changed was the price tag.

Moral: Look past that price tag. You may be surprised. :shock: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:05 pm
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Along those same lines there is the story of a clean, working refrigerator left on the curb for a couple of weeks with a sign that read "Free, works great". After no one claimed the perfectly working appliance, the owner put a for sale sign "$50.00" and some one immediately took it without paying. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:38 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
. . . After no one claimed the perfectly working appliance, the owner put a for sale sign "$50.00" and some one immediately took it without paying. :lol:
:shock:

ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:52 pm
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Thanks for the post. Worst case, I suppose is that Fender makes an "all USA California" model and tacks on $50. It could be similar to cars required to meet California's stricter EPA standards ... they sold for more here and had to have a CalEPA sticker on the door. I'm not sure though if they can really trace where individual guitars end up as well as you can with cars. So perhaps add $100 because Fender somehow has to make sure that all "USA" guitars sold here meet the CA rule.

Meaning you run to Oregon, Nevada or Arizona to buy your Fender (as people did at first when CalEPA cars were found to retail for about $500 more than an otherwise identical model sold out of state). Or just buy mail order, pay no shipping and waive your right to a Meets-CA-Law Made in USA guitar made in the USA.


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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:57 am
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Some of you may claim to care about Country of Origin, but in general, people do not. They vote with their wallet !

For example, Levis, the maker of the iconic 501 jeans, as a Marketing Strategy, presents itself as a Progressive, Socially Responsible Company. Part of this strategy, among other things, is to offer 'waterless' jeans (to Save the Planet) and also offer 'Made in USA' jeans produced 100% in the USA, using only USA materials (keeping jobs in the USA and promoting Patriotism).

The Standard 501 Jeans, produced in China, Vietnam and Thailand, cost $78.00. The 'Made in USA' 501s cost $148.00, a 115% markup.

The Standard $78.00 501s outsell the $148.00 'Made in USA' 501s by 11-to-1 !!

As a result, Levis plans to discontinue the 'Made in USA' Line next year.

Country of Origin simply does not matter to people except a very few and/or those who want to craft a personal image for their own gain - to brag to friends, are running for Public Office, represent a Union or some such.

The same is true for Fender. Most Fender customers are not professional, or even amateur musicians. They're private 'noodlers' (including many of us) who couldn't discern, or appreciate, the differences between MIA, MIM, MIJ, MIK, MII or MIC guitars were it not for Forums like this and Fender's own Marketing Dept.

The bulk of these are content simply to have the Fender logo at the cheapest possible price. Others are willing to pay MIA prices for the 'perceived value' (real or not) of the Corona guitars. A good portion of this 'perceived value' is the Bragging Rights and for this, some will want 100% MIA, but most do not care if an MIA instrument has an MIM Pot or Pickup, let alone be able to tell the difference.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:16 am
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Why not simply list the countries of origin, for material and for work? Then both Federal guidelines and California law will be happy.

If they're not ashamed of it nor trying to mislead the customers, what's the problem telling?

Change the label from "Made in USA" to "Fender American" and list the origins of all the vital parts on the box, in the manual, or their web site. Fender should have BoMs for everything they purchase, so assembling a small list should not be hard.


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Post subject: Re: "Made in USA" will Fender need to revise that?
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:19 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
Some of you may claim to care about Country of Origin, but in general, people do not. They vote with their wallet !
...
cheers!


Agreed. There would have to be a serious overhaul of the consumer market in this country in order to maintain that ideology. Flip 20 things over in your house and see how many are made in the USA. It’s a serious bummer. I'd say things like the EPA, Corporate Taxes, Unions etc. etc. etc. all have a bigger part to play than people just not buying American.

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Last edited by captainc on Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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