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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:59 pm
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I really don't know from nothing here, but IMHO, Fender nailed it when they put a 10" in my '73 Princeton Reverb...

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I've switched the OEM Oxford for a date-correct Jensen which sounds much better - fuller, better Bass and Mid response.

I chose a 12" for my Champ/Vibro Champ build and got a '68 Jensen which I reconed and re-coiled for the proper nominal impedence.

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This 12" sounds amazing when hooked to my '65 Vibro Champ as an extension.

But, if I drive the 12" Jensen on my '67 Deluxe as an extension from my '73 PR, it doesn't sound as good as the 10" Jensen.

So, maybe wattage plays a role as well. :? :?

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:14 am
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I'm using 10s in two Champs (an 83 model and an SCXD -- that replaced with a Copperhead) and in a Fender Super 210. For 12s, I have a custom enclosure I use with an Ibanez THS30 head and I had a Bandmaster VM. Based on that, I agree with comments that the 10s will tend to be somewhat more trebly and physics dictates that 12 will come across as somewhat louder (more vibrating area).

Since I play at low volumes, mostly Jazz and blues, I've come to favor the 10s over the 12s. That's part personal taste but also that to my ear, the 10s provide more definition to what I'm playing. But back in 67 - 75 when I was playing in bands all the time, it was rock of the era and I always used 12s. If I was playing much rock now, I'd have probably kept the Bandmaster since the 2 X 12 cab would have been good for that kind of sound.

My 12" enclosure was (according to the maker) "voiced for Jazz." I don't know how he did that, but he's right. Even so, it likes a little more drive from the amp than my gear with 10s. Not an issue in a typical guitar, bass, keys, drums gig, but it is a consideration if I'm backing up a single vocalist or acoustic guitarist. There, I find (and maybe this is the speaker too) that the 12" combo needs to be a bit louder than something like a coffee house warrants.


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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:06 pm
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I like tens.

But like anything else, they have to be used correctly. A knife might be perfect for peeling an apple, but I wouldn't wanna bring it to a gunfight.

As far as 1x10 combos go, I would not want to try to gig with one, alone. By that I mean it's either going to have to be lined out or mic'd, unless you're playing really quiet music.

That said, I gig most every week in a praise band with (electronic) drums, using a 1x10 combo, a Fender Super Champ XD. I line it out to PA, and since it's in the mains and folded back into a monitor for me, it's perfectly sufficient:

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For slightly louder applications, and/or if I can't be mic'd/lined out, then I combine the SC XD with another amp. For example, below you can see the SC XD on the left, angled up and being used as a close monitor, at an outdoor gig with an acoustic drum kit. A bigger, more powerful tube amp (pre-'69 Sunn 200S, 60W) is slaved to the SC XD as its controller, with the Sunn head's 2x12 (behind me to our right) mic'd to PA, as well as providing more stage volume for the drummer and other players:

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With a small experimental performance art combo, we often can't line out or mic our amps. To get some more oomph, I've paired the SC XD 1x10 with a Marshall Lead 20 1x10, which is a lot louder amp. Since this pairs Fender with Marshall, I call this my "best of both worlds" mini-stack:

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Of course, for higher volume applications, the simpler remedy is multiple tens and more wattage. The classic Fender amp for that is the 40W 4x10 Super Reverb. Mine, a vintage 1966, was cut into two cabs, and the speakers long ago replaced with Sunns, but otherwise is stock, circuit-wise:

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Despite it "only" being 40 Watts, I used to play with a second guitarist who used a 100W Marshall JCM 900 head and 4x12 cab, and I never had any problem keeping up. Also, it gives you the power of levitation:

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:26 am
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Nice strides. ^

Back in the dawn of Heavy Rock it was 12" Celestions or nothing. As a result I became of the mind that you only play guitar through 12" speakers.

But in later years (and having become a 5 watt amp fan boy) I have discovered there are other options. I even get excited swapping 6" up to 8" and ponder the big leap to ten.

Many now play through the PA. Many PA cabs are tens or even eights.

So much is down to the speaker make and type. Perhaps 12" speakers are less manufacturer magic related.

If making your own cab I would certainly make it big enough to accommodate a 12" to give that flexibility. It might even be interesting to do 2 X 8" as you would then have twin speaker goodness.

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:27 am
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Hey, thanks for everyone's input, what a great topic. I'll be on the fence with ideas about this amp for a while. I'm working mad hours lately, and it's starting to hit triple digits around here. Might be around fall time before I get around to it. Never hurts to have a good plan, and there's plenty of time for it.

Keep the ideas coming. I'm loving the input so far and really do appreciate it.

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:13 pm
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Earlier I would not even talk about or consider any other speakers for guitar than the 12" .
Then I bought a Roland Cube 40XL for use in my living room. I was blown away , both from the amp and the 10" speaker. I could not believe it was possible ! Very good sounding 8)

About a year ago I sold my HRDlx and bought a used Fender Princeton Recording Amp (w/10" Jensen) , and I've never looked back. Sounds like a dream- use it for rehearsals, recording , small to big gigs, both using it alone as a part of the backline, and miked up. 10" rules :)
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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:08 am
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I've always been a big fan of 10" speakers, more so than any other size.

I have owned a few amps with 12" (Twin Reverb in particular), but several factors just didn't sit well with me.
Yes, a single 12" will project more, but I prefer the punch and tightness of a 10" speaker...as far as loudness, my '63 Vibroverb will keep up with almost any amp I've matched it against, even before I turn it up past "5"...
A true mathematical equation:
(40 watts) + (2x10") speakers = LOUD.

If you need louder, you're probably wearing spandex and playing a pointy-headed stupor-Strat while lamenting the demise of hair metal...I digress.

The second reason I prefer 10" speakers is their ability to handle blues harp (harmonica) frequencies equally as well as guitar frequencies. The two best harp amps I've ever owned are my (still-present) Vibroverb (2x10") and my (lamentedly-departed) Bassman Ten (4x10"), and I attribute a lot of that versatility to the 10" speakers.

I have played through multiple other amps with varying wattages and speaker sizes, and these two Tone Monsters are the best I've found for harmonica, with one exception:
a home-made tiny 6-watt amp with 2x8" configuration...it was made expressly for harmonica, and it was amazingly big, rich, full and cool...until you tried to play it un-mic'd with a full band, where it got a little lost in the mix. It didn't sound that great for guitar, either (not bad, just not great).

I've never played through a Super Reverb with a harmonica, but it's one of my favorite amps for guitar (even though I've never owned one)...I figure if I were to swap one of the channels' preamp tube from a 12AX7 to a (lower-gain) 12AU7, it would make for a might good (but VERY loud) harp amp, too...and they're loaded with 4x10" speakers.

Deluxe Reverbs (on paper) would be perfect harmonica amps...but they're not, and I suspect if a DR had 2x10" or even 1x10" speaker configuration, it would sound great for harp (as well as guitar). Princeton Reverbs sound good for both harp and guitar, but can get lost in the mix for a live/full band situation.

I've never fallen in (lasting) love with an amp with 12" speakers...with two exceptions:
My first amp, an old solid-state Gibson G-20 amp with amazing tremolo/vibrato/whatever, and the Vox AC-15...
I love both of those amps for guitar, but they sound like crap for harp.

This, of course, is just my opinion...everybody's got their own kicks and kinks they have to address. For my purposes, I prefer ten inch speakers.

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:43 am
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
I've always been a big fan of 10" speakers, more so than any other size.

I have owned a few amps with 12" (Twin Reverb in particular), but several factors just didn't sit well with me.
Yes, a single 12" will project more, but I prefer the punch and tightness of a 10" speaker...as far as loudness, my '63 Vibroverb will keep up with almost any amp I've matched it against, even before I turn it up past "5"...
A true mathematical equation:
(40 watts) + (2x10") speakers = LOUD.

If you need louder, you're probably wearing spandex and playing a pointy-headed stupor-Strat while lamenting the demise of hair metal...I digress.


Not true, or, more accurately: incomplete.

If you need louder you could also (instead) be wearing camo and lamenting the demise of the Sex Pistols.

You'll have to trust me on this one.


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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:27 am
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Brian Krashpad wrote:
Screamin Armadillo wrote:
I've always been a big fan of 10" speakers, more so than any other size.

I have owned a few amps with 12" (Twin Reverb in particular), but several factors just didn't sit well with me.
Yes, a single 12" will project more, but I prefer the punch and tightness of a 10" speaker...as far as loudness, my '63 Vibroverb will keep up with almost any amp I've matched it against, even before I turn it up past "5"...
A true mathematical equation:
(40 watts) + (2x10") speakers = LOUD.

If you need louder, you're probably wearing spandex and playing a pointy-headed stupor-Strat while lamenting the demise of hair metal...I digress.


Not true, or, more accurately: incomplete.

If you need louder you could also (instead) be wearing camo and lamenting the demise of the Sex Pistols.

You'll have to trust me on this one.

Lol, I stand corrected...

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:31 pm
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Yea, sometimes I like to play loud just to feel it in my bones every now and then. I mean c'mon, sometimes it's fun to make the house shake, the glasses fall out of the cupboards, and the windows flex.

I do miss my HRDV 410. That thing was a house shaker. I used it a lot for recording, and it was awesome.

But I was faced with a difficult decision at the time. Keep the HRDV, or a one of a kind hand-wired Dumble clone. I can always get another HRDV, but getting my hands on another Heidkamp will probably never happen in my lifetime. It wasn't as easy of a decision as it sounds right now. I didn't really know what the Heidkamp was when I bought it, and I loved the HRDV. So it was a gamble.

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Post subject: Re: Thoughts on 10" speakers
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:15 pm
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I've been thinking of a custom cab with a 10" Ragin Cajun and a 12" Cannabis Rex.


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