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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:12 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
F-Stop wrote:

Trivia: How many members were there in the band and who were they? Don't feel bad if you don't know.

Cheers

FSB: 4? Nokie Edwards, Bob Bogle, Don Wilson, and Mel Taylor - but others have followed; of course you could add the girls on the album covers :lol:


May the surf be with you too. By the way, I did try surfing back in the 70's in Galveston TX. Hardest thing I ever tried. I probably managed a 3 second stand at best. :lol:

The closest surfing in my neck of the woods was just a rumour at first. Then, in my highschool years, we started to see a few boards on cars, but found the spot was isolated, some distance away, and you could only get there by a large boat because of open ocean. So I was stuck with my snorkelling (not so bad), and, perhaps, a paddle board (just kidding) :lol: Later, I moved away from the coast and, wouldn't you know it, a terrific road was built and now it's a surfing Mecca (particularly in the winter months). I became too old to skateboard so I'm content to play surf music (and other genres) in a place with little history or love for it. That's okay, because R&B (not Blues) and Jazz takes a back seat too. You are lucky to have tried surfing F-stop, now no one can call you a hodad. :)

How did a band from the Pacific get to be called The Atlantics? :shock:


Yes, how did a band from the Pacific get to be called The Atlantics? Good question. They must have flunked Geography. :D

When it comes to the actual members of the band, most people will think of the four you mentioned:

This is what I understood from an interview done awhile back with Don and Bob. The only members of the band were Don and Bob. Their first drummer, George Babbit, played with them on their first recording "Walk Don't Run". He later had to quit because of being too young for the bar scene. Nokie Edwards, and later Howie Johnson played/recorded with them, but were not official band members. They only recorded and gigged with them on tour. Nokie and Howie were pursuing their own careers at the time. A few years later, Mel Taylor played with them and remained as their longest drummer - man was he good. When Mel passed away, his son Leon took over the sticks. Yes, you're right, others did play with them at times, and one of the best additions was Jerry McGee. Not too long into their career, Nokie took over many of the lead parts. I'm just sorry they never stayed States side as they spent a good deal of their time in Japan. I guess due to instrumental groups fading out here. That's about it as far as I recall. Correct me if I made any errors. I thought they were the best instrumental group and were responsible for my interest in guitar. Some might have wished otherwise. :lol:

Here's an awesome drum solo by Mel Taylor:



Yep, I'm no Hodad. :D

Cheers mate


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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:34 pm
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Great drum solo F-Stop, thanks for posting. I miss that feature of bands showcasing drummers, Adolfo "Fito" de la Parra, Ginger Baker, John Ronald "Mitch" Mitchell, Carl Palmer, Aynsley Dunbar, Bun E. Carlos, Tommy Aldridge were all powerful live, many more drummers I heard on records as most bands had at least one song that featured the drummer lol . :D 8)

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:19 pm
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F-Stop: I didn't pick George Babbit, but, depending on what constitutes membership in the band, this may have added to the question as George is reported to have recorded Cookies and Coke -The Ventures (with no separate credit for George). This release is prior to Walk Don't Run with Nokie's friend Skip Moore (drums)(no credit - he is said to have opted for session fees instead) on the WDR recording. Howie Johnson joined The Ventures after the release.



Details about the song, etc. is mostly on the 3rd paragraph:
https://acerecords.co.uk/features/artis ... -ventures1

The band (in some form) was called The Impacts and The Versatones prior to The Ventures, so some question remains as to what part George may have played. Also, Nokie may or may not have played on Cookies and Coke. If so, there could be four Ventures early on, although in Nokie's case, I believe you (F-Stop) are correct in saying Nokie was independent of the band. Two if George and Nokie were not official in the beginning under The Ventures name. There couldn't be one member or it would be one called The Venture. :lol:

This is all new to me, but it sounds plausible, and there is a previous Ventures record. :wink:

Ah, music history is a wonderful thing, clear as dirt, eh wot? :roll:

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Last edited by Fender Strat Brat on Wed May 13, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:38 pm
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Cool video Fender Strat Brat, 8)

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:32 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
F-Stop: I didn't pick George Babbit, but, depending on what constitutes membership in the band, this may have added to the question as George is reported to have recorded Cookies and Coke -The Ventures (with no separate credit for George). This release is prior to Walk Don't Run with Nokie's friend Skip Moore (drums)(no credit - he is said to have opted for session fees instead) on the WDR recording. Howie Johnson joined The Ventures after the release.



Details about the song, etc. is mostly on the 3rd paragraph:
https://acerecords.co.uk/features/artis ... -ventures1

The band (in some form) was called The Impacts and The Versatones prior to The Ventures, so some question remains as to what part George may have played. Also, Nokie may or may not have played on Cookies and Coke. If so, there could be four Ventures early on. Two if George and Nokie were not official in the beginning under The Ventures name. There couldn't be one member or it would be one called The Venture. :lol:

This is all new to me, but it sounds plausible, and there is a previous Ventures record. :wink:

Ah, music history is a wonderful thing, clear as dirt, eh wot? :roll:


Great work Mr Sleuth. :D

I had no idea that before the Ventures Nokie played along with Buck Owens. I've read a number of biographies on these guys, but a lot of this is new to me. I've also heard a few interviews with Bob and Don, but no mention at all on this. I really appreciate you digging this up. I've tried to learn all I could about the band. An awesome read. This is very much appreciated Fender Strat Brat. And thanks for the video clip. I don't know if I missed it while reading, but were Bob and Don the voices on the recording?

I love music history, and yes, it can get as clear as dirt all right - say what!

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:29 pm
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Thanks, guys. It's the least I could do for the paraadiddles, rim shots, and the great tones that Mel gave us. Thanx, for that video, F-Stop. Credit also goes to the original posters on YouTube, otherwise we might not have discovered this.

My bet is that Bob and Don did the vocals for Cookies and Coke as the disc is listed The Ventures with no other credit (except lyrics by Jo Wilson) other than Bob, Don, and George. You never know with the music industry secrets though 8)

Perhaps a better copy of
Cookies And Coke:


Peace.

Some answer may lie here with the flip A side The Real McCoy. Bob, Don, and George are also credited on this label, and for both songs, Bob and Don are listed on the disc labels as composers. Maybe George had a key vocal spot. :roll: Sounds like Walter Brennan :lol:

Here it is:

Enjoy.

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:58 pm
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But . . . Since this thread is about Ventures guitars here's one:



Still like the Mosrite and Hallmark though. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:41 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
But . . . Since this thread is about Ventures guitars here's one:



Still like the Mosrite and Hallmark though. :wink:


I agree, but the Aria didn't sound bad at all. I had no idea there were so many Mosrite copies till I started this thread. Maybe one day I'll pop for one. By the way, the Walter Brennan part sure sounded authentic until near the end of the song. Listening to the songs on that 45, Bob and Don came a long way since then with their playing ability.

This has been an interesting journey, finding out so much about the Ventures prior to their hit "Walk, Don't Run". Its amazing how much can be dug up using the Internet. I thank you for all this.

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:03 am
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F-Stop. You are very welcome. It was fun and informative for me too. And yes there are other Ventures models that we haven't touched on, but these were several good representations IMO. I too am a fan of The Ventures. Some songs I love, some not so much. I also liked their take on psychedelic music. Whatever the choice, they had an influence on me. Remember - walk . . . don't run. :lol:

Yours truly,
Just another Hodad.

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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:06 am
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F-Stop wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
I remember back in the 60's one could purchase a Mosrite Ventures guitar. I had thought about buying one one as I loved the tone, but didn't quite like the narrow neck. I was surprised tonight to see a guitar made by Jay Turser available at GC- The Jay Turser Venture's Mach 1 model. Does anyone know anything about this guitar and Jay Turser guitars.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Jay-Turser- ... =111257390

Cheers


Don't know anything about the knock-offs, but here's an original '65 Mosrite Ventures



Very Cool !!

Originals are pretty rare because production ceased when Mosrite failed to pay the Ventures the royalties due, so very few were made, though many knock-offs have been produced through the years.

cheers!


Thanks for providing the video and link. It's a shame they stopped making them. I remember playing one, but I didn't buy it because of how narrow the neck was. He was right about them being rare. I guess $5000 is a fair price for a 65 especially because of how rare they are. For me, I'll just have to fantasize. :D

I'll answer my own question regarding the Jay Turser knock-off. I read two customer reviews. Even though they liked how cool the guitar looked, one guy had to glue back the nut, and the other guy had issues with a loose neck. Nice :roll: :!: . Thanks Jay Turner, but no thanks. Up until I saw the Venture's model for sale, I had never heard of this manufacturer. Talk about buyer beware.


I can really only talk about Jay Turser basses. I've owned two and still have the first one I bought. Actually Jay Turser won some awards early on. Turser instruments along with SX instruments were the first Chinese made electric string instruments to be widely distributed in the west. I think Turser came shortly before SX. This was when big companies like Fender and Gibson were still making their Squier and Epiphone value lines in Korea and Indonesia.

The early Jay Turser stuff was actually usable and seemed above par compared to other value lines like Squier or Epiphone which cost more. Turser basses benefit from pickup and electronics upgrades sure, but so do most other Asian made basses. However in general the Tursers were noted for being very usable out of the box after a quick setup. They were a perfect student instrument and some people like me would upgrade them for gigging where you didn't want to take a vintage bass. Most Tursers have a 12 inch neck radius.

Between Turser and SX (ESSEX) the Turser basses seemed to have better necks, fret dressing and more robust pickups while the SX seemed to have better and sometimes more intricate body finishes. Most Turser basses were made with basswood bodies and maple necks and came stock with Daddario XL strings. A Jay Turser JT401 was my first basswood bodied bass. Love that first Turser, but the second Turser not so much. Jay Turser sold out a while back to the JAM GROUP which also owns KORG and a bunch of other music based companies, some of which you've heard about for decades.

I can't speak for Jay Turser's quality today because it is a totally different company than when it first started up, but at one time Jay Turser was selling the best $200 bass on the market, the JT401B. Basswood bodies are softer and screws work loose on basswood faster than ash or alder. But it is no big deal. Just check the screws every few months. On Fender and Squier basswood instruments you should do the same thing.

The idea to make guitars for cheap in Asia to sell in the west for profit was not a new concept. Jay Turser just followed a business model pioneered in the 1960's by Jack Westheimer who moved guitar making around from country to country in Asia as market conditions and production costs changed. First Mr. Westheimer had guitars made for his multiple brands in Japan and then moved manufacturing to South Korea where with new partner Young H. Park the two founded a company first called "Yoo-Ah" ("You and I" in Korean) as a working title. The company was renamed COR-TEK after Westheimer's successful Cortez guitar brand before the first instruments went into production. As costs began to rise in Korea and the instrument market started softening in the west Mr. Westheimer sold his half of Cor-Tek out to Young Park who became the sole owner. People today know this company as CORT and today Cort makes the higher end Squiers plus Epiphones and other brands along with their own Cort branded instruments that also have their devotees. For many years Cort Korea made almost all Ibanez basses for example.

All Jay Turser did was take Jack Westheimer's business model and apply it in China, which Mr. Westheimer never got around to doing. Jay Turser's results were fairly successful too. The quality was astounding for the production cost. Turser and SX got good reviews as value lines for years. Ultimately this attracted the attention of major brands like Fender. Leading up to the reality today that most of the value line price range instruments are being made in China along with some more expensive ones too. But Jay Turser and SX were the first ones I know about from China. Their earlier stuff was better than you'd expect and represented a good value.

Most Turser electric instruments have been knockoffs of historic models like Strats, P-Basses, Hofner's Beatle Bass, Teles, SGs and Les Paul's, so it is no surprise they are doing a Ventures model. In addition to the Mosrite model Turser is also currently doing knockoffs of the classic Jack Westheimer era Silvertone electric guitar along with a Danelectro. Today Jay Turser even makes banjos and other folk instruments. They used to have about 8 models in all, now more like 30.

No way should you compare a USA Mosrite to a Jay Turser knockoff any more than you would compare a real Fender to a Turser knockoff. It is foolish to think they would be as good for a tenth the money. But they do offer a value option if you are short on cash.


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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:08 am
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brotherdave wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
I remember back in the 60's one could purchase a Mosrite Ventures guitar. I had thought about buying one one as I loved the tone, but didn't quite like the narrow neck. I was surprised tonight to see a guitar made by Jay Turser available at GC- The Jay Turser Venture's Mach 1 model. Does anyone know anything about this guitar and Jay Turser guitars.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Jay-Turser- ... =111257390

Cheers


Don't know anything about the knock-offs, but here's an original '65 Mosrite Ventures



Very Cool !!

Originals are pretty rare because production ceased when Mosrite failed to pay the Ventures the royalties due, so very few were made, though many knock-offs have been produced through the years.

cheers!


Thanks for providing the video and link. It's a shame they stopped making them. I remember playing one, but I didn't buy it because of how narrow the neck was. He was right about them being rare. I guess $5000 is a fair price for a 65 especially because of how rare they are. For me, I'll just have to fantasize. :D

I'll answer my own question regarding the Jay Turser knock-off. I read two customer reviews. Even though they liked how cool the guitar looked, one guy had to glue back the nut, and the other guy had issues with a loose neck. Nice :roll: :!: . Thanks Jay Turner, but no thanks. Up until I saw the Venture's model for sale, I had never heard of this manufacturer. Talk about buyer beware.


I can really only talk about Jay Turser basses. I've owned two and still have the first one I bought. Actually Jay Turser won some awards early on. Turser instruments along with SX instruments were the first Chinese made electric string instruments to be widely distributed in the west. I think Turser came shortly before SX. This was when big companies like Fender and Gibson were still making their Squier and Epiphone value lines in Korea and Indonesia.

The early Jay Turser stuff was actually usable and seemed above par compared to other value lines like Squier or Epiphone which cost more. Turser basses benefit from pickup and electronics upgrades sure, but so do most other Asian made basses. However in general the Tursers were noted for being very usable out of the box after a quick setup. They were a perfect student instrument and some people like me would upgrade them for gigging where you didn't want to take a vintage bass. Most Tursers have a 12 inch neck radius.

Between Turser and SX (ESSEX) the Turser basses seemed to have better necks, fret dressing and more robust pickups while the SX seemed to have better and sometimes more intricate body finishes. Most Turser basses were made with basswood bodies and maple necks and came stock with Daddario XL strings. A Jay Turser JT401 was my first basswood bodied bass. Love that first Turser, but the second Turser not so much. Jay Turser sold out a while back to the JAM GROUP which also owns KORG and a bunch of other music based companies, some of which you've heard about for decades.

I can't speak for Jay Turser's quality today because it is a totally different company than when it first started up, but at one time Jay Turser was selling the best $200 bass on the market, the JT401B. Basswood bodies are softer and screws work loose on basswood faster than ash or alder. But it is no big deal. Just check the screws every few months. On Fender and Squier basswood instruments you should do the same thing.

The idea to make guitars for cheap in Asia to sell in the west for profit was not a new concept. Jay Turser just followed a business model pioneered in the 1960's by Jack Westheimer who moved guitar making around from country to country in Asia as market conditions and production costs changed. First Mr. Westheimer had guitars made for his multiple brands in Japan and then moved manufacturing to South Korea where with new partner Young H. Park the two founded a company first called "Yoo-Ah" ("You and I" in Korean) as a working title. The company was renamed COR-TEK after Westheimer's successful Cortez guitar brand before the first instruments went into production. As costs began to rise in Korea and the instrument market started softening in the west Mr. Westheimer sold his half of Cor-Tek out to Young Park who became the sole owner. People today know this company as CORT and today Cort makes the higher end Squiers plus Epiphones and other brands along with their own Cort branded instruments that also have their devotees. For many years Cort Korea made almost all Ibanez basses for example.

All Jay Turser did was take Jack Westheimer's business model and apply it in China, which Mr. Westheimer never got around to doing. Jay Turser's results were fairly successful too. The quality was astounding for the production cost. Turser and SX got good reviews as value lines for years. Ultimately this attracted the attention of major brands like Fender. Leading up to the reality today that most of the value line price range instruments are being made in China along with some more expensive ones too. But Jay Turser and SX were the first ones I know about from China. Their earlier stuff was better than you'd expect and represented a good value.

Most Turser electric instruments have been knockoffs of historic models like Strats, P-Basses, Hofner's Beatle Bass, Teles, SGs and Les Paul's, so it is no surprise they are doing a Ventures model. In addition to the Mosrite model Turser is also currently doing knockoffs of the classic Jack Westheimer era Silvertone electric guitar along with a Danelectro. Today Jay Turser even makes banjos and other folk instruments. They used to have about 8 models in all, now more like 30.

No way should you compare a USA Mosrite to a Jay Turser knockoff any more than you would compare a real Fender to a Turser knockoff. It is foolish to think they would be as good for a tenth the money. But they do offer a value option if you are short on cash.


That was very interesting. Quite a history lesson here. Years ago when Fender and Gibson guitars, as examples, were all made in America, you knew exactly what factory they came from, and it still holds true today, but when these companies started production overseas, things got rather confusing. The only thing one can be sure of is the country it is made, but other than that, it could be made in different factories. Unless it can be tracked by the serial number, it would be hard to find out. Well, as long as the instrument's materials and construction are up to snuff, so to speak, and it looks, plays according to one's needs, and lasts a long time, it doesn't matter if the thing is made on Mars.

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: The Ventures guitars?
Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 3:22 pm
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F-Stop wrote:
Well, as long as the instrument's materials and construction are up to snuff, so to speak, and it looks, plays according to one's needs, and lasts a long time, it doesn't matter if the thing is made on Mars.


Well, there ya go, Martian. A ready made market for those luthier skills :lol:

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