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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:08 am
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Ok...I think the problem here is our definitions of "large" and "small" venues.


The thread title is "smaller clubs" - save large venues for another time. :evil:

Clubs that accomodate 75 or less (think 30 watt amps and under).

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:26 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
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Ok...I think the problem here is our definitions of "large" and "small" venues.


The thread title is "smaller clubs" - save large venues for another time. :evil:

Clubs that accomodate 75 or less (think 30 watt amps and under).


+1

Six stools (or less) at the bar.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:34 am
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What drums to take to a venue? Well, that's a mixed bag. I was fortunate to see (twice) one of the best, if not the best of his time, drummers EVER IMO. Buddy Rich.

He usually played a basic kit with snare, tom, floor tom(s), bass, and a variety of cymbals. With this, he could get whisper quiet or power sounds in front of a big band. (In contrast, Neil Peart of Rush was one of Buddy's favourites). Rich's speed technique, and accuracy were something to see live. He had this thing about using the sticks above and below cymbals, particularly the high hat.and if you blinked you might miss it. In short, drums and their drummer are as much for show as big Marshall stacks can be. Percussion uses variety, but, sometimes a lot of gear is not required. I have a 20 inch bass and used to have a 4 inch snare. The bass is easier to store and fit in small areas, but I know larger basses can have advantages too. Bottom line, miked drums (EQ and EFX) can suit most any mid to large venue and are pretty much standard fare today in order to improve and/or control sound. (For those who don't play traps, drummers aren't always trying to be loud, stick handling sometimes dictates it . . . we're not all B.R.s with flexible budgets). Plexi screens are a great addition, however. One can consider having two kits, based on budget (such as a smaller cocktail jazz version and a larger rock set). This is comparable to having small amp rather than a large stack. After all, why bring a ladder truck to a campfire?

As for electronic kits, space and flexibility shines here, and these kits have improved greatly. I find the weak link for these kits have been the cymbals. If you sit inches away from real cymbals of good quality you will know the difference (particularly in decay). If you do not use live cymbals, it may not be as noticeable. Still, improvements in processing/sampling have come close, very close. I'm not a huge fan of live midi and drum machines, especially when showmanship is replaced. For recording purposes, even I use it. But, after many years of criticizing electronic drum kits, I'm finally ready to accept them. Just make them with bling. :D

That's my 2 cents.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:30 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Clubs that accomodate 75 or less (think 30 watt amps and under).

Depending on the amp and the venue, a 30W tube amp can be overkill too. Which is where good drive pedals come in handy, so you don't have to crank up the amp gain to get the sound you need.

Play so loud that the patrons can't order anything, and you might not be invited back. Drown out the wimpy club PA the singer may have to use, and nobody will be happy.


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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:40 pm
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I've been using a Fender Hot Rod Deville III and a Peavey Classic 30.


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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:14 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Clubs that accomodate 75 or less (think 30 watt amps and under).

Depending on the amp and the venue, a 30W tube amp can be overkill too. Which is where good drive pedals come in handy, so you don't have to crank up the amp gain to get the sound you need.

Play so loud that the patrons can't order anything, and you might not be invited back. Drown out the wimpy club PA the singer may have to use, and nobody will be happy.


'xactly - that's why I use my 15w Pro Jr and not the 22w DR.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:20 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
As for electronic kits, space and flexibility shines here, and these kits have improved greatly. I find the weak link for these kits have been the cymbals. If you sit inches away from real cymbals of good quality you will know the difference (particularly in decay). If you do not use live cymbals, it may not be as noticeable. Still, improvements in processing/sampling have come close, very close. I'm not a huge fan of live midi and drum machines, especially when showmanship is replaced. For recording purposes, even I use it. But, after many years of criticizing electronic drum kits, I'm finally ready to accept them. Just make them with bling. :D

That's my 2 cents.


From what I've seen most of the negative attitudes about electronic kits come from people that aren't aware of the progress that's been made in DSP and sampled processing in the last few years. Granted you have to be willing to pay the premium price on these kits, but it pays off in terms of both the feel and sound of the drums.

The advantage of the electronic kit will be in scalability. It's going to sound polished and consistent in both a large and small venue and at the appropriate volume level for the room. Without $2,000 to $3,000 worth of mics and premixers as well as adequate attention to tuning, you're never going to get any acoustic set to sound as polished and professional in a live environment as you can an electronic kit. If you want proof, try making a live recording of the band directly off of the mixing board and see how the drums compare.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:53 am
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If you're going this route, you gotta go big, or just go home. The lower end electric kits will not compare to the top end ones.

My son is a very good drummer, (he's not a kid, he's 35, and been playing since he was 6)

He has one of the more recent top of the line Roland kits. (not too mention at least high end acoustic kits -- 2 of which are custom ordered DW -- NOT cheap and, yea, they sound awesome)

But he's used his Roland electronic kit for in a bunch of different settings, some of which I've been working along with him, it truly sounds amazing. The biggest problem drummers have is the feel, and response. But these are designed in such a way that they respond like a drum head would. Even the cymbals mimic the feel and response.


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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:58 am
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Okay, so no one here is using the Quilter amps (also used by Albert Lee,
Doyle Bramhall II, Vernon Reid, Paul Pesco, Alan Holdsworth and a slew
of others) instead of tube amps?

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 2:46 am
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Re: electronic drums.

KidBlast: Your son has good taste in drums, and you are correct about stick response, and cheap versus costly electronic kits.

dunedindragon: : I have not only kept up with DSPs and sampling, but, I have a large
national music store 3 blocks from home, and they carry most every percussion item available. As a long time drummer, I'm always open to something new - if it applies. I'm also sure you enjoy your gear, which is great. And yes, setting up a mix with an acoustic kit can be difficult with mikes and mixer when you have both jobs to do.

No argument that electronic percussion has come a long way (even I would grab some Roland's) . . . but, as an experienced Navy drummer, and having played with a 20 piece jazz band, and rock bands, even I know that electronics have their place (recording is a great application), yet they aren't going to replace acoustics for some time to come. Drums have been around since the log.

As for cymbals, I won't go so far as to say what's better, but they are (IMHO) still different. My heavy 50 year old Zildjians sound different than new ones . . . maybe not better - but, not the same either. They have earned a reputation for some reason. It's because I have heard the advances of cymbal synth/samples overtime that I agree it's very good today. I was lucky to have followed the technology from the start. Huge difference.

Acoustic drums not only respond differently, they show better. However, they are a PITA to haul around, and they aren't chump change, and that's why I play vintage drums, and a nice Strat with an amp I can manage. :D

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:41 am
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I was using my Egnater Rebel 20, but now it's either my 18 watt Marshall or 5e3 clones. I put a switchable solid state/tube rectifier in the 18 watter, so I get a little more power and headroom out if it if need be. The 5e3 is light as a feather and puts out close to 18 watts. It's really all I need nowadays. I've used the 18 watt clone in medium sized club of about 125 people with no issues at all.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:59 pm
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arth1 wrote:
yodacaster wrote:
This one has the Vintage 30 in it, which I liked better than the Classic Celestion. If the Eminence scerams better than the V 30, you've given me something to think about!

It's all up to personal taste, I think. I absolutely love the V30 in my Orange - it's refreshing as a combat boot to the face, while still being solid in the bass end.

A fellow player here put some Cannabis Rex speakers in his 4x12 cab, and I was completely underwhelmed. It was all mid-range, but then again with what he plays that might have been the right choice for cutting through. Personally, I need to be able to hit the drop-D low D and have the stage reverberate. Tastes and playing styles differ.


Very true. I love V-30s. But sometimes the speaker needs to fit the amp. I was always fidgeting with the Heidkamp to get a certain thump I was looking for. I bought an Eminence Red White and Blues speaker for my Ampeg, and I wasn't liking it. I tried it in my Hughes & Kettner, didn't like it.

So I took it and decided to give it a try in the Heidkamp, and the result was perfect. It's paired up with a Jensen Blackbird and this amp took on a thicker sound. The V-30 wasn't allowing as much of the low end to come through cleanly.

I've never had such a great sounding overdrive channel. It's not high gain, but it's a beefier, thicker sound than any of the overdrives of my other amps. It's very thick for an el34 amp.
The RWB makes it punch much harder and can handle the low end tighter.

I cranked it last night, and I can say, without a doubt, not a small club amp. It weighs 80-lbs. and has a lot of volume.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:31 am
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shred6 wrote:
I cranked it last night, and I can say, without a doubt, not a small club amp. It weighs 80-lbs. and has a lot of volume.


You also got that Dumble clone for a steal, if I remember correctly. :)
Reduced volume on the guitar end and a good analog drive pedal might be the combination you need to not have it blow down supporting walls.

Of course, the cheapest and most effective way of getting a significant bass boost is simply to place an open-back cab a few inches from a wall or other reflective surface.


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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:25 am
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Yea, I think I paid $750 for it. It's a beast for sure.

There's no shortage of anything on this amp. You can make it as bright as you can stand it, there's a ton of bass if you're into that, and an abundance of mids if you need it.

See those red switches on the left? A good way to look at it is like this. You have your B-M-T eq knobs. For the treble and mids, if you don't feel like you're getting enough, flip a switch, and "0" on the knob becomes "10". So the eq spectrum on this amp pretty much goes from 0-20 for the mids and treble. Then there's a presence knob to take the treble even further. It takes time to adjust to it. But the bass is huge with just the knob as it is. I really don't push it past 5.

The RWB speaker can handle that much bass more efficiently than a V-30. And so can the Jensen. I wasn't really aware of it until I tried the swap though. When you push this amp into power tube clipping, it's a complete monster tone.

I'd never take this to a small gig. With a Roland JC 50, Ampeg Superjet, and Peavey Delta Blues, I have better suitable options.

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Post subject: Re: What amp are you using for smaller club gigs?
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:29 am
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I always see people on gear forums using smaller amps for small gigs but I've seen shows in basements where the smallest rig was a full stack

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