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Post subject: Fender Marshall
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:50 pm
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Like many of us know Gibson guitars sound great through a Fender amp but, I also feel that Fender guitars sound great through Marshall amps as well. I love a good Fender amp as much as anyone but, basically a Marshall is sort of an English Fender on steroids. I kind of view the Supersonics as Fender's way of saying "Hey Marshall, we can do it too kid!" Those Supersonics are some badass amps for sure!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:42 am
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Fender plug on a Marshall amp !

You don't know Jimi Hendrix ?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:17 am
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and this is exactly why I have 5 amps! :D

you just CAN'T have one and be done with it.. oh the humanity..


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:57 am
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KidBlast wrote:
and this is exactly why I have 5 amps! :D

you just CAN'T have one and be done with it.. oh the humanity..



+1
I have more than 10 good amps and same number of very good guitars


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:22 am
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I don't know a great deal about the differences of amps other than the varying effects that each provide. I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean. Of course the wattage output of an amp would surely make a difference. I've recently resurrected an older model Princeton Chorus amp I purchased over 20 years ago since I just picked up a Fender Tele. I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:39 am
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F-Stop wrote:
I don't know a great deal about the differences of amps other than the varying effects that each provide. I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean.
Short answer ; Oh no

Of course the wattage output of an amp would surely make a difference.
Plus amp desing , circuits , parts ...

I've recently resurrected an older model Princeton Chorus amp I purchased over 20 years ago since I just picked up a Fender Tele. I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:43 am
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stratele52 wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
I don't know a great deal about the differences of amps other than the varying effects that each provide. I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean.
Short answer ; Oh no

Of course the wattage output of an amp would surely make a difference.
Plus amp desing , circuits , parts ...

I've recently resurrected an older model Princeton Chorus amp I purchased over 20 years ago since I just picked up a Fender Tele. I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


I recall when I purchased the PC amp I never really compared it to others. It was the chorus sound that I liked at the time. Years ago when I had a '57 Tele, I played it through an old Sears Silvertone amp. I'm wondering what is the amp of choice among Tele players today?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:46 am
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F-Stop wrote:
I don't know a great deal about the differences of amps other than the varying effects that each provide. I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean. Of course the wattage output of an amp would surely make a difference. I've recently resurrected an older model Princeton Chorus amp I purchased over 20 years ago since I just picked up a Fender Tele. I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


This is just my own $.02 for what it's worth.....

"I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean."

There's an old saying...if you plug a cheap guitar into a decent amp, you're probably going to get a pretty decent sound, however if you plug the most expensive, top shelf instrument into a cheap practice amp, it's gonna sound like crap every time.

Ask any remotely experienced musician and they'll probably tell you that like guitars, most amps (as in brand & model) typically have their own unique sound/voice. A Fender Twin for example is going to sound very different from a Marshall JCM 900 stack, which is going to sound completely different from something like that Fender Princeton (great little amp btw). In the broadest general sense, the amp a musician uses (guitarist, bassist, etc) is typically driven by the type of music they play and WHERE they play it. For example, if I'm just sitting here practicing and/or jamming along with MP3's at my computer, then I'm usually just playing thru my little Roland Microcube (which I've also used for one or two recordings). Just sitting here jamming at my computer, I really don't need my stage rig at all (not to mention my wife would probably have my balls if I hauled all that stuff up here to the office, LOL). Since it can also run on AA batteries, it's also a great little amp to take to the park on picnics or out to the river side...it's really a wonderful little amp. On stage however, while that little Roland sounds pretty great (for a small practice amp), it's just not adequate for ANY kind of gig. For most of the shows I've ever done, I've found that I really need AT LEAST 40 - 60 watts of power, with 80 - 100 watts being ideal (for most gigs, I usually use my Lab L5). My experience is this; you can never have too much power! If you're too loud, you can always turn down, but if you're not loud enough...you're screwed. Yea, you can mic the amp (or use a line out) and run it into the PA system -if- you have enough channels, but that's a different can of worms. In my mind at least, I'd have to say that power is probably the singular biggest concern when it comes to amps. In other words, the right tool for the right job.

The type of music usually plays a huge roll for most people as well. A lot of hard rockers and metal players, for example may prefer that Marshall stack, where a lot of blues and country players prefer something like a Twin instead. Many (if not most) Marhalls (a lot of British amps actually) tend to break up a lot easier than most Fenders do, so they're really great for that extra crunch (without having to resort to fx pedals), where as Fenders are typically known for having a great deal more clean head room. For people like myself who do a bit of both (distortion and clean), I tend to lean towards having the extra clean headroom...I can always add a distortion pedal if I need some crunch, but if the amp is breaking up on something like a country or folk tune, there's no real way to clean it up. There are certainly a number of tonal differences as well...some rather subtle, some not so. Someone who's into Hendrix for example may prefer that mid boost you get with a lot of Marhalls where as a jazz player may prefer a bit more "bottom end" for a smoother, mellower tone. Then of course you have a number of other amps, even more tailored for certain kinds of sounds...a great many people are fond of "hi gain" amps (especially in the boutique market these days) and if you ask a lot of jazz and blues players, some will tell you a Roland JC-120 is the holy grail of their sound (downright wicked amps IMHO). On the other hand, a person who's more into oldies or looking for a true vintage sound may favor something like a vintage 4 x 10 like the old Fender Bassman's. That said, a great deal of it also really just comes down to personal taste as well...just as many folks may prefer a Strat to a Les Paul (or vice-versa), many folks just like the way certain amps sound.

Then of course, if you skim through any guitar forum, you'll see an age old debate about tubes vs. solid states. There are an unfortunate number of purists out there who will tell you flat out that nothing beats a good tube amp (it's not necessarily true, but you just can't tell some people that). Personally I do tend to favor a decent tube amp myself, however I own and use both, as they both have their advantages (the reliability factor and cost of maintenance on a tube amp can be a real pain in the butt for some folks). Again, my main gigging amp at the moment is my Lab, which is all solid state and for many practices/jams, I even use my little Peavey Backstage...it doesn't have the greatest tone, but it's loud and it's REALLY easy to carry around, LOL!!!

So in essence, no...amps don't sound the same at all. However...

Something A LOT of people over-look is that unless you're simply playing by yourself in your bedroom or basement, it also doesn't really make THAT much of a difference either (regarding tone...volume is another issue). The simple fact of the matter is that if you're playing a live gig at an average bar or club, chances are 99% of your audience is NOT musicians and they're not going to know the difference between a Fender, a Marshall and a vacuum cleaner! Remember, the vast majority of people out there don't really know the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul other than that they are both "electric guitars". In the 30+ years I've been playing, I have NEVER...not once...had a single person walk up to me and say "dude...you play really well, but you'd sound so much better if you used a (insert favorite amp here)". Even when it comes to working with other musicians, people either like the way I play or they don't...the gear is immaterial. At the end of the night, people will only remember whether you played well and if they had a good time at your show, There are -some- things people will remember...if they can't hear the lead singer for example or if the keyboard player was passed out drunk in his own puke, LOL! Otherwise, if you have a good mix and you play well and people were digging the music, the guitar and amp you use really doesn't matter that much at all to anyone other than the person using it.

And to be completely honest, the same really goes double for working in the studio. By the time a mixing engineer gets thru pushing and pulling and shaping your sound so that it fits well into the "audio spectrum" and especially if that track then goes out to a mastering house, chances are there's usually very little of your original signal left for the amp (or guitar) to have really played any significant roll. Seriously...pick a random tune (preferably one that isn't recorded by an artist known for using certain gear such as Eric Clapton or SRV). See if you can "hear" what guitar they used, let alone what amp they used on the recording. Even seasoned pros can't usually tell the difference. If you want a rather startling example of this, take a listen to the intro of The Beatles single "Revolution" (the single version, not the slower version on The White album)...no amp. Harrison's guitar was plugged directly into the mixing console.

Quote:
I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


The singular best thing I can suggest is for you to take that Tele of yours to a few different music stores and play thru as many guitar amps as you can! Let your own ears decide what these differences are and how they compare. Very simply whether we're talking about guitars or amps, more than anything we're talking about personal choice and preference...and EVERYONE has their own tastes and opinions (as it should be). Folks can make some broad generalizations (such as I have attempted to do above), but what may sound great to one person may sound like complete crap to another. The singular best way to compare guitars or amps is to simply listen to them yourself side by side.

______________

With all of this said, there is one final thing I would like to add...remember, the single most important aspect of this ever so complex equation is simply this; the musician. I remember a story about the legendary Chet Adkins...a student of his had commented that the guitar he was using "sounded really great" (or something to that affect). Adkins, took the guitar, tossed it on the floor in front of the student and replied "Yea? How does it sound now?". As I've often said, it's not about the gear - it's about the person using it. In the many years I've been doing this, I've seen guys who have the most expensive gear money can buy...who honestly can't play a lick. On the other hand, I've seen guys use some of the most humble, if not rattiest gear you can imagine who can bring tears to your eyes because they're playing is really -that- good.

The true sound of any guitar player comes not from their guitar or their amp...it comes from their hands, heart and soul.


As always, just my own personal opinions...please use them only for what you feel they are worth to you.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:00 am
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:54 am
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lomitus wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
I don't know a great deal about the differences of amps other than the varying effects that each provide. I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean. Of course the wattage output of an amp would surely make a difference. I've recently resurrected an older model Princeton Chorus amp I purchased over 20 years ago since I just picked up a Fender Tele. I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


This is just my own $.02 for what it's worth.....

"I was under the impression that they were all much alike, especially when played clean."

There's an old saying...if you plug a cheap guitar into a decent amp, you're probably going to get a pretty decent sound, however if you plug the most expensive, top shelf instrument into a cheap practice amp, it's gonna sound like crap every time.

Ask any remotely experienced musician and they'll probably tell you that like guitars, most amps (as in brand & model) typically have their own unique sound/voice. A Fender Twin for example is going to sound very different from a Marshall JCM 900 stack, which is going to sound completely different from something like that Fender Princeton (great little amp btw). In the broadest general sense, the amp a musician uses (guitarist, bassist, etc) is typically driven by the type of music they play and WHERE they play it. For example, if I'm just sitting here practicing and/or jamming along with MP3's at my computer, then I'm usually just playing thru my little Roland Microcube (which I've also used for one or two recordings). Just sitting here jamming at my computer, I really don't need my stage rig at all (not to mention my wife would probably have my balls if I hauled all that stuff up here to the office, LOL). Since it can also run on AA batteries, it's also a great little amp to take to the park on picnics or out to the river side...it's really a wonderful little amp. On stage however, while that little Roland sounds pretty great (for a small practice amp), it's just not adequate for ANY kind of gig. For most of the shows I've ever done, I've found that I really need AT LEAST 40 - 60 watts of power, with 80 - 100 watts being ideal (for most gigs, I usually use my Lab L5). My experience is this; you can never have too much power! If you're too loud, you can always turn down, but if you're not loud enough...you're screwed. Yea, you can mic the amp (or use a line out) and run it into the PA system -if- you have enough channels, but that's a different can of worms. In my mind at least, I'd have to say that power is probably the singular biggest concern when it comes to amps. In other words, the right tool for the right job.

The type of music usually plays a huge roll for most people as well. A lot of hard rockers and metal players, for example may prefer that Marshall stack, where a lot of blues and country players prefer something like a Twin instead. Many (if not most) Marhalls (a lot of British amps actually) tend to break up a lot easier than most Fenders do, so they're really great for that extra crunch (without having to resort to fx pedals), where as Fenders are typically known for having a great deal more clean head room. For people like myself who do a bit of both (distortion and clean), I tend to lean towards having the extra clean headroom...I can always add a distortion pedal if I need some crunch, but if the amp is breaking up on something like a country or folk tune, there's no real way to clean it up. There are certainly a number of tonal differences as well...some rather subtle, some not so. Someone who's into Hendrix for example may prefer that mid boost you get with a lot of Marhalls where as a jazz player may prefer a bit more "bottom end" for a smoother, mellower tone. Then of course you have a number of other amps, even more tailored for certain kinds of sounds...a great many people are fond of "hi gain" amps (especially in the boutique market these days) and if you ask a lot of jazz and blues players, some will tell you a Roland JC-120 is the holy grail of their sound (downright wicked amps IMHO). On the other hand, a person who's more into oldies or looking for a true vintage sound may favor something like a vintage 4 x 10 like the old Fender Bassman's. That said, a great deal of it also really just comes down to personal taste as well...just as many folks may prefer a Strat to a Les Paul (or vice-versa), many folks just like the way certain amps sound.

Then of course, if you skim through any guitar forum, you'll see an age old debate about tubes vs. solid states. There are an unfortunate number of purists out there who will tell you flat out that nothing beats a good tube amp (it's not necessarily true, but you just can't tell some people that). Personally I do tend to favor a decent tube amp myself, however I own and use both, as they both have their advantages (the reliability factor and cost of maintenance on a tube amp can be a real pain in the butt for some folks). Again, my main gigging amp at the moment is my Lab, which is all solid state and for many practices/jams, I even use my little Peavey Backstage...it doesn't have the greatest tone, but it's loud and it's REALLY easy to carry around, LOL!!!

So in essence, no...amps don't sound the same at all. However...

Something A LOT of people over-look is that unless you're simply playing by yourself in your bedroom or basement, it also doesn't really make THAT much of a difference either (regarding tone...volume is another issue). The simple fact of the matter is that if you're playing a live gig at an average bar or club, chances are 99% of your audience is NOT musicians and they're not going to know the difference between a Fender, a Marshall and a vacuum cleaner! Remember, the vast majority of people out there don't really know the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul other than that they are both "electric guitars". In the 30+ years I've been playing, I have NEVER...not once...had a single person walk up to me and say "dude...you play really well, but you'd sound so much better if you used a (insert favorite amp here)". Even when it comes to working with other musicians, people either like the way I play or they don't...the gear is immaterial. At the end of the night, people will only remember whether you played well and if they had a good time at your show, There are -some- things people will remember...if they can't hear the lead singer for example or if the keyboard player was passed out drunk in his own puke, LOL! Otherwise, if you have a good mix and you play well and people were digging the music, the guitar and amp you use really doesn't matter that much at all to anyone other than the person using it.

And to be completely honest, the same really goes double for working in the studio. By the time a mixing engineer gets thru pushing and pulling and shaping your sound so that it fits well into the "audio spectrum" and especially if that track then goes out to a mastering house, chances are there's usually very little of your original signal left for the amp (or guitar) to have really played any significant roll. Seriously...pick a random tune (preferably one that isn't recorded by an artist known for using certain gear such as Eric Clapton or SRV). See if you can "hear" what guitar they used, let alone what amp they used on the recording. Even seasoned pros can't usually tell the difference. If you want a rather startling example of this, take a listen to the intro of The Beatles single "Revolution" (the single version, not the slower version on The White album)...no amp. Harrison's guitar was plugged directly into the mixing console.

Quote:
I sure would be interested to know more of how one compares to another.


The singular best thing I can suggest is for you to take that Tele of yours to a few different music stores and play thru as many guitar amps as you can! Let your own ears decide what these differences are and how they compare. Very simply whether we're talking about guitars or amps, more than anything we're talking about personal choice and preference...and EVERYONE has their own tastes and opinions (as it should be). Folks can make some broad generalizations (such as I have attempted to do above), but what may sound great to one person may sound like complete crap to another. The singular best way to compare guitars or amps is to simply listen to them yourself side by side.

______________

With all of this said, there is one final thing I would like to add...remember, the single most important aspect of this ever so complex equation is simply this; the musician. I remember a story about the legendary Chet Adkins...a student of his had commented that the guitar he was using "sounded really great" (or something to that affect). Adkins, took the guitar, tossed it on the floor in front of the student and replied "Yea? How does it sound now?". As I've often said, it's not about the gear - it's about the person using it. In the many years I've been doing this, I've seen guys who have the most expensive gear money can buy...who honestly can't play a lick. On the other hand, I've seen guys use some of the most humble, if not rattiest gear you can imagine who can bring tears to your eyes because they're playing is really -that- good.

The true sound of any guitar player comes not from their guitar or their amp...it comes from their hands, heart and soul.


As always, just my own personal opinions...please use them only for what you feel they are worth to you.


Thank you so much for that excellent explanation and also the time you put into it. Very thoughtful of you. I'm going to spend some time dialing in the Princeton Chorus amp when I get my Tele back from the shop. I might also do as you suggest and take my guitar to GC and try out the various amps. I just got off the phone with my wife and was talking to her about the amp, and she mentioned to me that she liked the sound from the amp I played my Tele through at GC. I can't remember which one it was though. GC has a sound room to try out your gear. I might just head over there one day when I get my guitar back. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply. Very much appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:41 pm
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F-Stop wrote:

Thank you so much for that excellent explanation and also the time you put into it. Very thoughtful of you. I'm going to spend some time dialing in the Princeton Chorus amp when I get my Tele back from the shop. I might also do as you suggest and take my guitar to GC and try out the various amps. I just got off the phone with my wife and was talking to her about the amp, and she mentioned to me that she liked the sound from the amp I played my Tele through at GC. I can't remember which one it was though. GC has a sound room to try out your gear. I might just head over there one day when I get my guitar back. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply. Very much appreciated.


My pleasure and I'm glad you found my comments helpful!

One quick little thing to add...if/when you do decide to head up to your local GC (or any other music shop), just for comparison's sake, along with your Tele, I'd probably take that Princeton too. It's also worth remembering that the same amp (and guitar) can often sound quite different depending on "the room". A small amp that may sound terrific in a small, well damped bedroom may sound really thin in an open, reflective space and that large amp that sounded great on the showroom floor of a large retailer may sound over-bearing down in the ol' basement studio. It's rather amazing how many people are surprised that their new amp doesn't sound the same in their living room as it did on the show room floor :-).

BTW...again that Princeton Chorus is really a great little amp. The other guitarist I work with in one of my bands uses one and he get's some really great sounds out of it (using nothing more than a Bennet Strat clone and an Ibanez tube screamer). I also have a Princeton 112+ and I've actually gigged with that little sucker a few times...not really enough clean headroom for many of the venues I play, but for a cheapy little solid state that I snagged used for $75, it actually does a pretty decent job.

Anyways, again glad I could help!

Good luck!
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:51 pm
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Around 15 years ago, I had bought a brand new, Marshall G 80 RCD combo at Guitar Center. I ended up bringing it back because it sounded like crap with the Strat I was using at the time. I exchanged it for a Fender Deluxe 112 which I regret getting rid of to this day.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Marshall
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:18 pm
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Your instrument consists of both the axe and the amp.
The amp is as important to the sound as the pickups are. And no, clean is not the same for different amps, any more than a clean Texas special pup sounds like a clean EMG. Some have a more ringing sound, some a more boxy sound, some a more punchy sound - they all differ, quite a bit. The tubes (or transistors), speaker, cabinet, filters, power supply and everything adds up to a particular sound, which even tends to vary by volume.
That Brian May uses a quad of Vox AC-30s and Ola Englund uses a Randall Satan isn't just for looks. Even on clean, they sound widely different.

Finding "the right" amp can be as hard as finding a favorite guitar.
But it's so fun looking :)


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