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Post subject: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:29 pm
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OK, let me set this up, I woke up very early several weeks ago and could not go back to sleep. So, I get up and go to my music room plug the head phones in and start to play. I have been playing for a little over two years and have got to the point where I seldom need to look at where I am at on the fret board, or so I thought. Since it was very early it was still dark and I only had on one very dim light, making the side markers hard to see. I kept missing the frets, I thought it was because I was not warmed up, but what I discovered was I was still seeing the side markers in my peripheral vision. I am still look for them I just don’t look down anymore.

My question is this, do you ever get to the point where you can “play with your eyes closed” or do you still need the side markers? I have noticed some guitars have glow in the dark markers and some even have LED side markers.

If you still need to look for them, do you ever practice in the dark when you know you will be playing in a dark club?

8)

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:02 pm
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I won't call myself an experienced player, but I think this is a very good question. I do play in front of audiences, so how I look when playing comes into my thoughts.
My first concern is accuracy. I think this is much more important than striking a guitar slinger pose. One of my favorite players is Mike Bloomfield. I've noticed that he often looks downright geeky when he plays. Holding the guitar up high and tilting his head right down towards the fretboard. I'd love to play as well as he did, and this helped me to decide that looking cool was secondary.
Because I sing, I have to learn certain parts without looking at the guitar, or my vocals fade. I've found that even hard parts can be learned to play blind, if I put enough practice into it. But I don't worry about looking at the fretboard when I can, because I'd rather do that than make a mistake.
I've noticed Clapton is very good at rarely looking at his guitar while playing. I think that's great, but I also think it's something that will come naturally with time and experience, and I'm not concerned that I'm not as good as him. I'll just keep plugging away at it and looking geeky while I do.

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:20 pm
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I think it depends on how far I'm moving.
3 or 4 frets are no brainers.
5 or 6 I can usually get but I usually look if I can.
7 or more I know I'm likely to misstep if I try to do it blind.
Of course it wasn't always so.
Time was I'd have to look just moving 2.
You get better with time.

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:29 pm
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I think it depends on many things. What left-hand-style you use (like more sliding or more lifting, thumb behind neck or used for fretting), whether you need to jump large distances, and whether you use the same or near identical guitars. When I switch back and forth between different scale lengths and cut-outs, I have to admit I do need to look, at least initially.

On my first guitar, I had a piece of tape under the 7th and 12th fret, to assist me with the feel.


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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:04 pm
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A good exercise to eliminate the need to look is to learn a simple
melody and then learn it in every key. It forces you to think 'sound'
instead of 'fret position' so to speak.

The late, great Tommy Tedesco wrote about that in his GP column
back when it was worth reading. I took his advice and it worked for me.

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:01 am
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There are some practice routines you can do.. like, note first pos. F, then immediately jump up 12 frets. do it for like 5 minutes. go to G# repeat, A, B, etc.. it will sound funky, but you're just practicing 12 fret "jumps". put this in as part of your routine. It will help you gauge long distance moves.


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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:09 am
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Experienced?......probably; Expert?...by no means! I need to see when I'm playing. Minimally have dim lights while playing live. And as others have stated, it's even more necessary when moving great distances on the fret board.

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:03 am
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I started out playing instrumentals so I guess I looked down more than someone who just played chords
I did however learn 2 things when we graduated onto vocal songs ....Get a decent mike and set the mike volume a little higher than you think you'll need and have the mike a little lower than normal, pointing upwards . That way you get no noticeable drop in voice volume when looking down or looking up and the second one was a freak accident
We played at a club, big place with a stage with full in house lighting which was controlled by the resident lighting guy .....We were halfway through a number when he switched every other light off except half a dozen red ones (You know that effect when the whole stage has a sort of red infra glow).....result, I was playing a 1963 Strat with a rosewood board...I couldn't even see the neck let alone the fret markers

No strings/frets/fret markers ...nothing . Than God he only did it for half a song . I went to him after the first spot and asked him to not do it again so later on, he gave each of us a nice soft white/yellow spotlight which was a great colour to play under

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:30 am
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Getting it right is the goal...

If that means you look, then look.

In time, you'll look at the fretboard less and less, but even the most experienced pros look down from time to time.

Don't sweat it... just play !!! :wink:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:59 am
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Sometimes I look at the fretboard, and other times I do not. However I am more accurate in my moves from place to place if I look at the fretboard.

Jose Feliciano is blind and he plays very very well..........

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:26 pm
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I usually look, depending on what I'm playing, but I'll also glance around to see what other musicians are doing too. If I'm playing live I might glance at the crowd, but usually you can't see anything if there's lighting and I'm not the front person, anyway. I have a tendency to kind of ignore them and concentrate on the songs. Not to be an arse, but it helps to deal with any stage fright. Obviously, if I were a front person, you'd want to interact with your audience more. No one usually gives a toss about the bassist, anyway. Except maybe other bassists, especially to see what gear you have. :P

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:39 pm
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Personally I've been playing for over 30 years so I guess I'd have to consider myself has having some experience, if not "well seasoned"...and yea, sometimes I do look at my fingers/frets.

For myself at least, it depends on a few things. If I'm just staying in one position, say an A minor pentatonic at the 5th fret, yes, I can close my eyes and "just play". From that perspective, I've even done the whole tossing the guitar behind your head thing (i.e. showing off, LOL). If I'm playing exclusively in the first/open position (Em or Gm leads or open chords), again no real sweat there. As others have said however, yea...if I'm hopping around on the neck a lot, I tend to look to see where I'm at. I won't speak for others here (although it could be a fun experiment), but personally if I close my eyes, it's hard to just grab the neck and be able to tell the 10th fret from the 9th or 11th, let alone do it accurately enough to play well. First position is easy because you can feel the nut/headstock, but anywhere along the middle of the neck is a bit tougher.

Along with that, I would also say that it can depend on how well I know a given tune. If the band is doing a tune that I've been playing for years (such as Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode), if it's a fairly easy tune and if we're playing that tune in the same key that I'm used to, it's not a big deal at all. On the other hand, if we're doing new material (or something I haven't played in a LONG time), then yea...I may need to look down occasionally (or a lot). Same goes for transposing a tune...a good example would be CCR's "Looking Out My Back Door". Not sure what key the tune was in originally, but I learned to play it in G as that was the key the singer I worked with at the time used. With this new band and a new singer however, now I'm doing the tune in C and yea...was staring at my fingers quite a bit until I got used to playing it in a different key and I still take a quick peek when I switch from rhythm to the lead...make sure I'm on the correct fret for the lead.

I think it also depends a great deal on the tune as well. It should go without saying that some tunes are MUCH easier to play than others. Consider the rhythm part of America's "Horse With No Name"...wow...2 chords, both open, LOL!!! I could probably play that one sound asleep. Now compare that with the intro to Led Zeppelin's "Stairway To Heaven"...yes, I look at my fingers while doing Stairway. With a song like Johnny B. Goode, where it's only 3 chords and both the lead and rhythm are played parallel across the neck (i.e. the hand is in the same position regardless of lead or rhythm), then it's no big deal. On the other hand, if I were doing a tune in D and playing the D chord from the 5th fret, but doing the lead up at 10th fret or 15th fret, then yea...I'd look to make sure I was at the correct fret. I also tend to find that I do better on the dotted frets for some reason...throw me an F# or a Bb and I usually have to think about it just a little more (although that could just be my aversion to working with horn players, LOL!).

Now with the technical issue of neck position aside, I do have to admit that there is another issue for me as well. Despite the years I've spent on stage, I still find myself staring at my guitar neck at times in order to avoid looking at the audience. In fact, I often have to remind myself to "look up and smile" occasionally, LOL!!! Especially the smiling part...I actually have to practice doing that, otherwise people think I'm pissed off while I'm playing because I get so focused on "the job". I also frequently stare at the set list and there have even been a few venues that will have big screen's and I'll catch myself watching TV while I'm playing (assuming something interesting is on) and again will have to remind myself to look out at the crowd occasionally...do that whole eye contact thing. It's kind of funny really...I don't really suffer from stage fright or anything...I just don't pay that much attention to the folks in the crowd unless we have people on the dance floor right in front of us or something.

I would also add that I do tend to look down at my fretboard a lot more if I'm getting -really- tired (and/or drunk and/or stoned, LOL!). Yea...there have been a few Saturday nights where by the time 1 a.m. rolls around and the band is half-way thru that last set....dang...hard to tell if I'm coming or going, let alone which fret I'm on! LOL!!!!! As da man said, "when your mouth is a getting dry, you're plenty high"..... 8) .


With all of this said, in my book at least, it's not really that big a deal at all and it's certainly nothing you need to be ashamed of. If you need to look at your fingers occasionally...wow...just look at them, LOL!!! On stage at least, it's been my experience that it's all about how well you play...and if looking at your fingers occasionally helps you to play better, then that's what you need to do. Making some eye contact with your audience is important and of course some eye contact with your band mates is essential, but at the end of the night, 'tis better to look at your fingers and play well than it is to miss a note or end up playing in the wrong key.


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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:20 am
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Thanks for all the tips and stories! I have to admit I love to hear a musician tell stories about playing and performing.

8)

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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:15 pm
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I've been playing for 43 years and I still look at the fretboard.


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Post subject: Re: A question for experienced guitar players
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:16 pm
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jeffo46 wrote:
I've been playing for 43 years and I still look at the fretboard.


Just not in the mirror I hope. ;)


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