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Post subject: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:22 am
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Ok...maybe I should be posting this over on the Gibson forums, however I suspect someone here probably knows the answer...

I know the actual Lucille Sig Series are more or less based on an ES-335 (built to B.S.'s specs of course), but looking at pics of B.B. King's rather infamous instrument(s)...mostly for inspiration while I'm working on the Eleca...I noticed there seems to be an extra knob down by the tone controls...seems to have a "chicken head" knob along with the normal tone and volume controls.

What's that extra knob for...is it a stereo rig of some kind (I know Gibson and other's have messed with stereo guitars before)? Some kind of extra tone circuit or something?

Not a big hoo-ha here...just curious more than anything.....


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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:48 am
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It's called a vari-tone. They use a choke and a selection of capacitors to strip various parts of the EQ from the PU's output for a variety of tones.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:54 am
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It's a Varitone switch,
"a variable notch filter consisting of one of several capacitors (selected with a rotary switch) in series with an inductor, forming an LC circuit" (Wiki quote).
Googling "gibson lucille varitone diagram" will give a lot more info - and probably delay the Eleca fix job a few days.


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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:02 am
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AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:54 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

AND the elimination of "f" holes.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:33 am
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lomitus wrote:
....What's that extra knob for...is it a stereo rig of some kind (I know Gibson and other's have messed with stereo guitars before)? Some kind of extra tone circuit or something?

Noooooo............YOU did NOT ask about that Varitone pot. Not YOU!!! OMG!!!! It's inception is ages old.:wink:

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Last edited by ZZDoc on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:35 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

AND the elimination of "f" holes.

.....and the center block to eliminate humbucker feedback.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:38 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
IM4Tone wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

AND the elimination of "f" holes.

.....and the center block to eliminate humbucker feedback.

Thought that was part of the ES-335 also.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:03 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

ES355 or ES345? I have been around a number of ES345 and they have the Varitone knob. BB King had a custom built ES345 made that did not have the F-holes. At least this is my understanding. Maybe he used both?? Or there is some misinformation on the web! http://www.musicradar.com/totalguitar/famous-stolen-guitars-tony-iommis-sg-and-six-more-272109/4
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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:33 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
Arjay

AND the elimination of "f" holes.[/quote]
.....and the center block to eliminate humbucker feedback.[/quote]
Thought that was part of the ES-335 also.[/quote]
Is and probably the most significant modification with respect to performance.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:48 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform
IM4Tone wrote:
ES-335
Xhefri wrote:
ES355 or ES345?

Arjay is correct, because the closest actual relative is the model ES-355TD-SV. But as he said, it is based on that model, but the BB King Lucille is its own model because no other Gibson has quite that mix of features. The closest is the ES-355TD-SV model, but (as mentioned above) - no 'f' holes. So the Lucille is not an ES355 model, it's just based on one.

ZZDoc wrote:
IM4Tone wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
AFAIK the Lucille guitars are all based on the ES355 platform, an elaboration of the more spartan 335 that brings an ebony fretboard, fancy inlays, headstock binding, gold bling, and other cosmetic enhancements to the table. This in addition to the aforementioned Varitone system and stereo output.

Arjay

AND the elimination of "f" holes.

.....and the center block to eliminate humbucker feedback.

Both the ES355 and BB King Lucille models are semi-hollow, not full hollow, so both have a center block.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:06 pm
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I have no clue what guitar Mr. King is playing now but back in the day, when he actually *performed* the blues onstage instead of sitting in a wheelchair and regaling his audience for more than an hour with tales of bad whiskey, mean women, and preferred fishing holes, he played a dead-stock ES355 just as this photo clearly shows......

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This was when the gentleman was at the top of his game.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:11 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I have no clue what guitar Mr. King is playing now but back in the day, when he actually *performed* the blues onstage instead of sitting in a wheelchair and regaling his audience for more than an hour with tales of bad whiskey, mean women, and preferred fishing holes.....
This was when the gentleman was at the top of his game.

Arjay

I saw him in a nearby city a couple years ago. I have told people I saw him "alive" rather than "live." That was about it. They had to help him on stage. He told stories .... talked and talked. He played all of 10 minutes of the whole concert. He is a legend though.

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Last edited by Xhefri on Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:36 pm
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I did once have an ES345 back in the 70's or early 80's I paid $300 for it from a guy passing through SE New Jersey. It needed a radical neck adjustment or refret which I had done at Philip Petillo's Guitar shop in Ocean NJ. I played it a while (less than 6 months) then sold it for whatever I had in it. Decent guitar the Varitone switch got set in one position and it stayed there. I only liked one of the tones, and never bonded with it or the rest of the guitar. I was into Les Pauls and SG's at the time.

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Post subject: Re: B.B. King's Lucille...what's that extra knob for?
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:50 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
lomitus wrote:
....What's that extra knob for...is it a stereo rig of some kind (I know Gibson and other's have messed with stereo guitars before)? Some kind of extra tone circuit or something?

Noooooo............YOU did NOT ask about that Varitone pot. Not YOU!!! OMG!!!! It's inception is ages old.:wink:



Yep...honestly can't remember anything about them. That said, I've also never been much of a fan of Gibson or Gibson styled guitars....at least until recently. I still have my old Memphis which is an LP knock-off, but the only reason I ever really liked that particular guitar (other than being my first real electric) is that it's a flat top...no "arch". It's also really light weight too. It's also got some rather interesting pickups...while they look like your average run of the mill PAF knock-offs, they're actually single coils, so that particular "LP" really sounds more like a Tele than anything else (LOL)...still a really wicked little guitar for "surf music".

This is really more about LP's specifically, but I kind of got turned off on these really early on...some time back in my late teens I briefly had a Hondo LP knock-off and while it was actually a very lovely instrument, I found it incredibly uncomfortable to play. I had gotten my old Kramer back around that time, which was considerably more "Strat-like" (at least in shape and feel) then a number of years after that my wife got ol' Blue for me (my '96 MIM). I've always thought the Gibson/Epi Explorers "looked cool", but they tend to be insanely heavy as well, so I've always stuck with my Strats....for me at least, Strats just seem like "a good fit".

With semi-hollows...I dunno. Other than a Rickenbacker or two (which I really love the sound of) and an old Epi Sheraton that a friend of mine had for a while, I've never really played too many over the years. Can't say I ever really had any particular dis-like for them or anything, they just never really caught my interest (other than the passing "oh...that's a pretty guitar", LOL!). I think that somewhere in the back of my head, I just associated the whole archtop thing with Les Pauls and just figured I wouldn't like semi-hollows either. Compared with my Strats, this Ibanez is certainly taking some "getting used to", so maybe that's just part of it too.

I can't really say what has spurred the recent interest in semi-hollows. I think it's mostly that after 20 years of playing Strats almost exclusively, I kind of wanted something "different"...just a little change of pace maybe. Both of the bands I'm in do a pretty fair amount of oldies and one of the bands does quite a bit of country, so a semi-hollow seemed like it might be an interesting idea to noodle around on...and after getting that Artcore, I've been kind of hooked. Could just be "new toy syndrome", but I'm really have a lot of fun with that Ibanez...really getting some great sounds out of her and I'm still amazed with the quality of that guitar.


As far as B.B. King goes.... I can't really remember when I first discovered him...had to be back in my late teens somewhere. I had a close friend (dare I say mentor) who got me hooked on the blues very early on there and I immediately developed a great love for B.B. King. That said, I never really payed much attention to his guitar(s) either. For me it was always more about his playing style than his tone specifically. I'm sure I've read about his guitars from time to time (I think it's impossible to be a B.B. King fan and not know the story of how his guitars got the name "Lucille", LOL)...I knew about his issues with f holes and feedback and such and I've probably read about that Varitone circuit at one time or another, but not really being interested in Gibson's as a general rule, I guess it never really sunk in or anything.


Anyways, yea...this has been a bit of a learning experience for me. Sometimes it's good to get out of one's "comfort zone".....sometimes 8) .


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