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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:36 am
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arth1 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Fender isn't trying to meet the needs of the vintage consumer. Fender doesn't even know where they came from. It can legitimately be argued that the biggest thing Leo did was create the Precision. No matter how much guitarists like to believe otherwise.

Do you have to try to turn every fripping thread into one about vintage basses? It gets tiresome.



Do you have to whine about what people post in every damn thread? You get tiresome. It's the example that means the most to me, but I tell ya what, Polly Pissypants. I'll pick another example. (How about the marketing of non-vintage correct guitars being marketed as vintage representations creeping from the lower end import lines into the American made instruments) However, Here's a "pro tip". If you don't want to read my posts you can use your settings so that you don't have to see them. I don't go around attacking you because you're constantly trying to ram your half-baked socio-political nonsense down everyone's throat, but maybe I should start.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:08 am
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arth1 wrote:
Do you have to try to turn every fripping thread into one about vintage basses? It gets tiresome.

That's his gig! Just like yours is that booze your keep pouring! :lol: Don't be a hater. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:16 am
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Xhefri wrote:
Just wondering, what exactly are the points you two take issue with in this article written for TPG? Flush out the issues so they are clear for all of us. They try to depict the CEO as a guitar playing person who is passionate about Fender guitars and the industry. They explain Fender is trying to meet the needs of the vintage consumer as well as the newer digital culture. So what is wrong with the article, per se? :twisted: That Fender has to try to get its moral level back up and modify its marketing strategies. So the problems, as you see them, are???

I thought I handled that in my response. Here's another way of looking at it. Not only is it dated, but it's propaganda fodder for the 'money'. Nothing wrong with it from their point of view, but neither, apparently, is the kind of hatchet woman they handed the rope to the guillotine to.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:34 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Just wondering, what exactly are the points you two take issue with in this article written for TPG? Flush out the issues so they are clear for all of us. They try to depict the CEO as a guitar playing person who is passionate about Fender guitars and the industry. They explain Fender is trying to meet the needs of the vintage consumer as well as the newer digital culture. So what is wrong with the article, per se? :twisted: That Fender has to try to get its moral level back up and modify its marketing strategies. So the problems, as you see them, are???

I thought I handled that in my response. Here's another way of looking at it. Not only is it dated, but it's propaganda fodder for the 'money'. Nothing wrong with it from their point of view, but neither, apparently, is the kind of hatchet woman they handed the rope to the guillotine to.

I was kind of hoping for specific points not a general summary. I want to know, and think it would be good, to point out what exactly about this article is off base. I have my thoughts, and will share them, but I was hoping to see of anyone else saw the things that I saw. So i am asking.

No reason for any of use attacking each other about our posts. We all have our pet-peeves, special interest, etc. So lets be tolerant. :D

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:42 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:

Paul's join date indicates that he's not been the beneficiary of the past 7 raucous years here. 8)


Actually, I've been here in one incarnation or another since 2009. The last was the most extensive as CPL from 2012 up until almost the end of last year. Around that time is when I had that issue. I deleted my account, but I missed posting here and came back. Before that, I had some account I barely even posted on and I think I deleted that one, too. I didn't really get involved here until I got my Rumble 350 Combo in 2012. I guess I didn't really have anything Fender related to talk about before that except I made a post about a Strat I had for awhile that had stickers on it and I was looking for a solution to remove the gunk. A few people answered it, but I don't even think they are even here anymore.


Paul, you just answered a couple of questions I've thought about for some time. When I look up a member that I've friend'd in the past (yep, I friend'd CPL) their page comes up with a blank space after "last post" and I wondered then, are they gone? I guess they are. Most missing members were pretty cool and it would be rad if they would come back to the Forum (welcome back Paul), hope springs eternal.
Rob, good to see your post Bro. Kumbayas are important, glad you're here !


I didn't even know anyone would have me on a friends list. If anything it would probably on their foe one. :P Actually, I've only had any sort of conflict with one individual on here and that was because they were being a troll and general idiot, but I didn't fight with them directly. It wasn't worth the extended aggravation to do so, plus that's what they want, anyhow. It was the straw that broke the camel's and besides I was in a pissed off frame of mind from other stuff, anyway. It doesn't do anyone else any good and it was best to walk away and deal with that for awhile. I guess I could have kept that account, but it was a reactionary thing to do at the time. Besides, sometimes it's best to just start over and not have any negative associations.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:26 pm
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Well back on subject! I just received and email that this guy is WRITING THIS WAY to make his point, because he just got off the phone with FENDER CUSTOMER SUPPORT and they told him that FENDER MADE STRAT PLUS GUITARS WITHOUT ROLLER NUTS IN 1988! Now this guy wants me to CHANGE MY MISINFORMATION ON MY WEBSITE. Good grief!

My question is, who is answering these questions at Fender's customer support? Any history book about Fender guitars that deals with the Strat Plus back in 1987 onward knows they came with a Wilkerson roller nut. That is like saying "I just talked with Fender and they told me Stratocaters NEVER had a Tremolo!" Good grief. They need Rob there to help these kids at Fender.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:49 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Just wondering, what exactly are the points you two take issue with in this article written for TPG? So what is wrong with the article, per se? :twisted: So the problems, as you see them, are???

propaganda fodder for the 'money'. Nothing wrong with it from their point of view

I was kind of hoping for specific points not a general summary. I want to know, So i am asking.

So lets be tolerant. :D


Xhefri, "WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?". I wasn't thinking about it until your post. Mike Eldred's departure to me was retirement. Did not know Rob was gone but now I do. Rhyme and reason, notwithstanding absence of fanfare in the spirit of normalcy retirement should answer the OP question. But the vibe seemed to go towards letting go of older employees in favor of younger less experienced ones. My misinterpretation will warrant my apology which you have now.
Talk about BS :lol: the short family friendly version anyway :lol:

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Last edited by Solid Body Love Songs on Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:47 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Just wondering, what exactly are the points you two take issue with in this article written for TPG? So what is wrong with the article, per se? :twisted: So the problems, as you see them, are??? I was kind of hoping for specific points not a general summary. I want to know, So i am asking. So lets be tolerant. :D

As far as BS goes. I saw my first bull when I was about 6 or 7 years old at an uncle's farm in northern Wisconsin. A 2000 pound monster bellowing and trying to bust out of his pen. 6 feet tall he could look over the pen at us and he smelled worse than any cattle I had been around up until that time. Does that mean I know the difference? Unfortunately, yes I most certainly do, and that article is a professional assembly of arm twisting back slapping self aggrandizement the likes of which I haven't seen about someone other than politicians. Surprising there wasn't a few more paragraphs about healing the sick and raising the dead. Guitar player or guitar salesman or now I'm confused. :lol:

++++++ 1 :D You hit the nail on the head!

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:40 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
Well back on subject! I just received and email that this guy is WRITING THIS WAY to make his point, because he just got off the phone with FENDER CUSTOMER SUPPORT and they told him that FENDER MADE STRAT PLUS GUITARS WITHOUT ROLLER NUTS IN 1988!

How could anyone in Consumer Relations have reference to reliable information from that period unless it's from Reliable Fender. :lol: :lol:? FMIC is always telling us that if we're asking for anything prior to mid-90's it's not in their data base. On second thought, someone there might be confusing it with the short lived AmDlx Lace Sensor guitar of that period, which was addressed on the Forums recently. But how would Fender know, without records? WE certainly would. Bear in mind that I recently asked them for specific information on the Phase 1 Eric Clapton guitar. One would think that they would have a file containing every scrap of paper relavant to that project. A guitar which has not only been in their stable, selling successfully for over 30 years, but the model which launched the Signature Series and the Custom Shop. But NO! Why not invite "this guy'' to join us here. :idea: We'll set him right! 8)

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:24 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Xhefri wrote:
Well back on subject! I just received and email that this guy is WRITING THIS WAY to make his point, because he just got off the phone with FENDER CUSTOMER SUPPORT and they told him that FENDER MADE STRAT PLUS GUITARS WITHOUT ROLLER NUTS IN 1988!

How could anyone in Consumer Relations have reference to reliable information from that period unless it's from Reliable Fender. :lol: :lol:? FMIC is always telling us that if we're asking for anything prior to mid-90's it's not in their data base. On second thought, someone there might be confusing it with the short lived AmDlx Lace Sensor guitar of that period, which was addressed on the Forums recently. But how would Fender know, without records? WE certainly would. Bear in mind that I recently asked them for specific information on the Phase 1 Eric Clapton guitar. One would think that they would have a file containing every scrap of paper relavant to that project. A guitar which has not only been in their stable, selling successfully for over 30 years, but the model which launched the Signature Series and the Custom Shop. But NO! Why not invite "this guy'' to join us here. :idea: We'll set him right! 8)

the interesting this is, Rob was pulling a lot of his older materials together and I believe he was responsible for putting a lot of that in a data-base for Fender. I guess when the move took place in 85-86 to Corona things were in a disarray and book keeping was not very good, in fact with some things, non-existing.

Rob shared with me all he could find about Strat plus guitars- colors codes, brochure information etc. production dates (aprox). Well now do I need to eat my words? This rather abrasive gentleman emails me saying Fender emailed him....

Model Name: Strat® Plus
Model Number: 010-7500-(Color#) and 010-7502-(Color#)
Series: U.S. Plus/Deluxe Series
Body: Alder (Optional Swamp Ash Body Natural Finish Only pn# 010-7500/2-821)
Neck: Maple
Fingerboard: Rosewood pn# (110-7500) or Maple pn# (110-7502), (9.5” Radius/241 mm), Medium Jumbo Frets
Frets: 22 Medium Jumbo Frets
Scale Length: 25.5” (648 mm)
Nut: LSR Roller Nut, 1.6875” (43 mm) (Changed from Fender-Wilkinson Needle Bearing Roller Nut o LSR Roller Nut 1/1994)

ETC ETC ETC and this was at the bottom of the list:

COMMENTS: Fender-Wilkinson Needle Bearing Roller Nut, (Changed to LSR Roller Nut 1/1994) there was also a transition period of using a standard synthetic bone nut in place of the roller nut but time frame is unsure.

Good grief, A transitional Strat Plus with a synthetic bone nut???? Seems incomprehensible. Even the 1987 pre-release advertisements feature the Wilkerson Roller nut as a main feature and that was also what was offered to Jeff Beck. Do i need to eat humble pie? How could such a thing be? I just don't buy it... Never heard of such a thing and I thought I had over turned about every stone there was...

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Last edited by Xhefri on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:54 pm
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[quote="Xhefri] COMMENTS: Fender-Wilkinson Needle Bearing Roller Nut, (Changed to LSR Roller Nut 1/1994) there was also a transition period of using a standard synthetic bone nut in place of the roller nut but time frame is unsure.
Good grief, A transitional Strat Plus with a synthetic bone nut???? Seems incomprehensible. Even the 1987 pre-release advertisements feature the Wilkerson Roller nut as a main feature and that was also what was offered to Jeff Beck. I eat humble pie. How could such a thing be? Never heard of such a thing and I thought I had over turned about every stone there was...[/quote]

I'd ask whoever quoted those specs what the source was for the transition Strat Plus in that during all the years of your interest, our discussions, hundred of sales in the use market, we've never seen one. Most recently, we've commented on the AmStDlx which I suggest might be the confusion.

What prompted this donnybrook in the first? Did 'this guy' give Fender a serial number he wanted verified? 'This guy' just opened a can of worms for the 'unreliable Fender' market. People slapping locking tuners and Lacer Sensor pups on 'swimming pool route' guitars and selling them as transition Strat Plus. :oops:

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:00 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
I'd ask whoever quoted those specs what the source was for the transition Strat Plus in that during all the years of your interest, our discussions, hundred of sales in the use market, we've never seen one. Most recently, we've commented on the AmStDlx which I suggest might be the confusion.

What prompted this donnybrook in the first? Did 'this guy' give Fender a serial number he wanted verified? 'This guy' just opened a can of worms for the 'unreliable Fender' market. People slapping locking tuners and Lacer Sensor pups on 'swimming pool route' guitars and selling them as transition Strat Plus. :oops:

I agree 100% I question it myself and the guy is as bad as the Fire Storm troll, emailing me and threatening me. Crazy people out there. I would guess he has a late 1988 American Deluxe Standard.

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:29 pm
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Hiya guys,
Credit where credit is due....the product database that I used and most, if not all of Customer Service still uses is a Filemaker Pro database that was created by the very first Consumer Relations Rep....who became and is still the manager of that department....and is also the keeper of that database. He approaches it very seriously and many people outside of customer service (Marketing/R&D/Manufacturing) are dependent upon his knowledge and editing skills. As with most good ideas, it started with "necessity is the mother of invention" and he created the database back around 94 because he genuinely cares about getting the information correct for public consumption. Not to say that there haven't been incidents of misinformation, or missing information since there is a portion of the information that comes from tribal knowledge from trusted sources (For instance---a Dan Smith would be considered a trusted source).
Personally, I don't ever remember seeing that comment concerning the nut on the Strat Plus in that database.....and I have never seen or been aware of a Strat Plus without some sort of roller nut. However, as with all things Fender, I've learned to "never say never".
You may want to re-check with Consumer Relations on that one.
All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:32 pm
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Xhefri wrote:
Interesting reading. The State Of Fender from TPG's veiwpoint:

http://www.tpggrowth.com/news/2014/20140201-state-of-fender.php

OK...here we go! Here are some of the things which come to mind. A study in contrast. This article is borrowed from Music Trade Magazine for the benefit of 'the money' knowing how their investment dollars are being applied.
- It catalogs the reign of Larry Thomas from his inception at FMIC in 2010 to the writing of the article, sometime before the coming Winter 2014 NAMM.
-Cites that they turned to private equity for capitalization rather than a public offering which appeared was not going to fly in the financial climate of that moment.
-It cites Thomas' lauding of an 'extraordinary and exceptional team', 'an exceptional organization', 'people in the right positions giving them support and encouragement'.
-Hard on the heels of the date of that article, Eldred is given his walking papers.
- Eight weeks after the article is published in Music Trades, Thomas announces his retirement.
- a TPG partner takes his seat, still sitting as far as I can learn.
- a year later Rob is no longer required
- dealers state that new Fender sales and marketing policies are objectionable
- one dealer writes in the press as to why they 'fired Fender'.
-article written in 2/2015 not hopeful for Guitar Center.

Just say'in.... :?

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Post subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE OLDER EMPLOYEES AT FENDER?
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:49 pm
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FRR34 wrote:
Hiya guys,
Credit where credit is due....the product database that I used and most, if not all of Customer Service still uses is a Filemaker Pro database that was created by the very first Consumer Relations Rep....who became and is still the manager of that department....and is also the keeper of that database. He approaches it very seriously and many people outside of customer service (Marketing/R&D/Manufacturing) are dependent upon his knowledge and editing skills. As with most good ideas, it started with "necessity is the mother of invention" and he created the database back around 94 because he genuinely cares about getting the information correct for public consumption. Not to say that there haven't been incidents of misinformation, or missing information since there is a portion of the information that comes from tribal knowledge from trusted sources (For instance---a Dan Smith would be considered a trusted source).
Personally, I don't ever remember seeing that comment concerning the nut on the Strat Plus in that database.....and I have never seen or been aware of a Strat Plus without some sort of roller nut. However, as with all things Fender, I've learned to "never say never".
You may want to re-check with Consumer Relations on that one.
All the best,
rob

Thanks Rob, balanced and insightful comment. Amazing how some people go off about guitars! Near death threats and name calling if you cross their thinking!!!! Great to know the inside scoop on that data-base.

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