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Post subject: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:05 am
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So I've been looking into getting a new guitar and came across the Yngwie Malsteen signature strat.
What is the benefits of a scalloped neck and is it something big to get used to?


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:27 am
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This is a pretty good explanation:

On a traditional guitar, you press the string down right behind the fret, and you feel the wood underneath your finger. The sounding length of the string is between the top of the fret and the bridge. On a scalloped fingerboard, you do press until the string contacts the top of the fret and no more. You don’t feel wood under your finger, and if you pressed any more, the note would go sharp. As a result, it requires a light touch. With less effort on the fretting hand, your arm can be more relaxed, and it causes less pain. Traditional bends are especially easy, as the strings glide along the tops of the frets easier, and your fingers don’t drag along the fingerboard. You can position your finger so you can get a little under the string as well. Vibrato is enhanced the same way- the string glides along the tops of the frets and your finger doesn’t drag along the wood. Bends can happen straight down too, although that is a little more difficult as the tension of the strings causes them to dig into the fingers. It is easy to add vibrato to entire chords this way, which is a neat effect.

Some guitars are offered with just the last few frets scalloped, for ease of bending- especially if the guitar has 24 frets.

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:27 pm
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While the first half of 10927's explanation is essentially correct, I could SERIOUSLY debate the comments there suggesting bends are easier, your hand is more relaxed and so on. Left hand relaxation is more about the player than the guitar neck and it seems to me that there have been PLENTY of players out there who can bend those notes just fine, without the use of a scalloped fretboard...BB King and Stevie Ray Vaughn certainly come immediately to mind. Will a scalloped fretboard make it easier to bend notes? Perhaps, but then so will .008 gauge strings...such things always come at a cost however.

The truth about scalloped fretboards is this; as with sooooooo many things related to playing guitar...your choice of guitar, choice of amp, choice of pedals, choice of strings, etc., etc., it's a taste thing (did ya notice that re-occurring word "choice" there?). In this case, it's something you either like or you don't. I've tried them a few times over the years...I -hate- them...I like the feel of a nice maple or ebony fretboard under my fingers. In this case however I would also add that the greatest majority of players out there tend to favor NON-scalloped fretboards...otherwise we'd see them a lot more often than we do. There's a few notable folks out there who play scalloped...but most don't.

Scalloped freboards require a degree of precision that, to be perfectly blunt, most guitar players aren't really capable of. In a way it's a lot like playing a fretless bass in that your fingers have to be right on the money with EVERY note, EVERY time. In this case, it's not simply a matter of "getting used to it", they way you might if you went from a Strat to a Tele or a Les Paul. In this case it's a matter of perfecting your technique to the point that you're not throwing notes out of tune simply by playing them. My suggestion to ANYONE considering a scalloped fretboard is to play one FIRST...and if possible, try playing it for more than just 5 minutes at Guitar Center. Try playing one at a band practice or gig and see how many people scream "tune it or die!". Scalloped is good for some folks, but for the majority of people out there, they can be a very SERIOUS challenge.

Now with that, I would ask yourself -why- you're interested in this guitar. If the instrument has features you're specifically interested in...pickups, body wood, neck shape, etc., including the scalloped fretboard and you've already played one to know whether it's right for you, then by all means go for it. Again, guitars are a matter of personal taste...personally I prefer a nice mid 90's Mexican Standard...what you like and don't like depends entirely on you. On the other hand, if it's simply that you're a Malmsteen fan (why?), then this is usually the WRONG reason to buy a guitar...you could own his own personal instrument and you're NOT gonna sound/play like he does unless you devote a great deal of time to studying his technique and playing style (why??)...in which case any run of the mill Strat would likely serve you anyways. To give you an example here, I'm a big Eric Clapton fan however I would -never- own one of those EC signature series "Blackies", regardless of price, because I do NOT like the way the feel. I can cover his tunes just fine with my '96 MIM which is considerably more comfortable for me to play.

Just some things to think about and as always, just my own personal opinions.


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:37 pm
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lomitus wrote:
I could SERIOUSLY debate the comments there suggesting bends are easier

Well there are 2 things at work there. One is friction. When I bend a note on my regular frets, I can feel the wood under the string. That means there is friction. The other is the ability to change the note by pressing harder on the strings. Theoretically a player can apply a little extra downward pressure while bending so they don't have to travel as far. Surely a difficult technique to master. Personally I would not get any guitar that requires I alter the way I play.

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:09 pm
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We have (or had) a forum member that favored them
quite a bit and also built a few of them:

http://marksmitchell.home.mindspring.com/

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:27 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
lomitus wrote:
I could SERIOUSLY debate the comments there suggesting bends are easier

Well there are 2 things at work there. One is friction. When I bend a note on my regular frets, I can feel the wood under the string. That means there is friction. The other is the ability to change the note by pressing harder on the strings. Theoretically a player can apply a little extra downward pressure while bending so they don't have to travel as far. Surely a difficult technique to master. Personally I would not get any guitar that requires I alter the way I play.


Sorry, but I have to stand by my original comment there. Friction or not, there's just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys and gals out there who can bend those notes on a regular fretboard to suggest that scalloped really has any kind of significant advantage there at all.

As to "the ability to change the note by pressing harder on the strings"...dude...that's still just bending a note. You're just bending it downward instead of sideways. Same thing, different way of doing it.

Interestingly enough, while you seem to be advocating the ability to bend notes as an advantage with scalloped fretboards, it seems to me that NOT bending notes...i.e. causing those notes to go sharp from too much pressure, is likewise the biggest disadvantage. Perhaps this is a bit subjective, however I have to believe that the greatest majority of notes any given guitar player frets aren't intended as being bent (tongue partially in cheek there). Bending notes is something that, more often than not, is used for emphasis with a given note. Likewise I would think that if a person were in fact bending most, if not all notes...either intentionally or as a lack of technique with something like scalloped...that a given tune would likely sound...well...out of tune (and probably REALLY bad).

For better or for worse, we guitar players as a breed tend to be a notoriously lazy lot. Unlike violin and cello players who typically spend a great deal of time and effort developing their technique, we guitar players come up with stuff like "power chords" and that ever infamous I-IV-V cord structure...all so we don't have to work too hard while playing, LOL! Seriously...after 3 decades of playing oldies, classic rock and blues, I still only know -2- scales...and they're the SAME scale, a minor pentatonic and a major pentatonic, LOL!!! What's more is that in those 3 decades, I've never really needed to know anything else for the music I play. Ok...sure there are notable exceptions with all of this, however for the most part something I learned a lot time ago (that actually took me a while to figure out) is that if I'm having trouble learning a tune, chances are it's because I'm trying to make it more difficult than it actually is. Think about how many people learn "Smoke on the Water" in their early years (with Ritchie Blackmore being one of the notable scallop players)...and how many try to do full bar chords with that intro riff, LOL! Took me forever to figure out that was just 1 finger pressed on just 2 strings..... (doh!). Anyways, having an amazing technique is a wonderful thing, however most average guitar players just don't have the patience, passion or dedication to really develop it to such a degree.

In any case, I'm not trying to be rude and you are of course welcome to your own opinion, however I just can't see any of that as being a valid argument in favor of scalloped fretboards, particularly considering the disadvantages for most guitar players and especially that it really does come down to personal taste more than anything.


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:07 pm
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Pretty much the same situation with jumbo frets. With jumbo frets, if you feel the fretboard, your note is sharp. I have one guitar with jumbo frets and I rarely play it even though it's my best sounding guitar. I can play it fine for 98% of the time. But during the heat of a song, I'll get too involved in the music and over squeeze a chord or a solo note. It has SS frets that will never wear out in my life. I'm thinking of having a luthier dress them down for me. I seriously doubt I could handle a scalloped fretboard.

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:26 pm
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diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks lomitus. I've never played a scalloped fret guitar, those are just the alleged reasons for using that type neck.

I do lean toward the logic that you would use different muscles to squeeze a tennis ball than to roll it out of your hand by pressing your finger tips against its side. So it makes sense to me that squeezing the string would be 'easier' than bending it sideways. But then I've never tried it so it's all just mere speculation based on what actual users have reported.

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:05 pm
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Isn't a scalloped fret guitar also very specifically a LEAD guitar? Seems it would be bad for chording or rhythm use.

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:02 pm
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There's a reason the vast majority of guitars are not scalloped.

Just sayin'

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:19 pm
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Thank you for everyones input so far. Seems like it's definately a guitar to have a good sit down with and actually play on to see whether it suits my playing.
I do tend to press down a bit harder than what is usually needed to play a note, so I'm suspecting this guitar wil probably not be ideal. I came across this guitar and got curious about if it will benefit me at all, but seems it might not be the case.
Thank you again


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:08 am
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lomitus wrote:
As to "the ability to change the note by pressing harder on the strings"...dude...that's still just bending a note. You're just bending it downward instead of sideways. Same thing, different way of doing it.


No, it's not that simple. For one thing, you can bend the high E string down while fretting the B string. Good luck with that with sideways bending.

Also, vibrato. Anyone who started with classical guitars are likely to do up/down vibrato instead of sideways, and a scalloped fretboard (or taller frets) helps quite a bit.

As with anything else, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and one particular solution won't be best for all players. But if were only accepting something because it's what the majority so far has used, we'd still be playing lutes.


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:45 pm
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arth1 wrote:
No, it's not that simple. For one thing, you can bend the high E string down while fretting the B string. Good luck with that with sideways bending.


I think you're splitting hairs here to try and prove your point. While I understand your E/B comment there, essentially "Bending a string" is simply that...stretching the string with your finger a bit in order to raise the pitch. Whether you're bending sideways or downwards, you're still stretching that string.

In either case, it still doesn't sound like that's anywhere significant enough to outweigh the disadvantages of scalloped.

Quote:
Also, vibrato. Anyone who started with classical guitars are likely to do up/down vibrato instead of sideways, and a scalloped fretboard (or taller frets) helps quite a bit.


As with bending, again it seems to me that PLENTY of players have mastered the technique of vibrato without the specific need for a scalloped fretboard...once again B.B. King certainly comes to mind. Why should someone need a scalloped fretboard for this when sooooooooooooo many people do it just fine without?

Quote:
As with anything else, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and one particular solution won't be best for all players.


If we were comparing apples to apples here, I would agree. In this case however, we're not simply talking the difference between "guitarists who play Strats" and "guitarists who play Les Pauls". We're not talking about the difference between an American made combo amp and a British stack. I do very much agree that there's no singular solution for ALL players, however, in this case there's also a VERY good reason we don't see more people playing scalloped necks...for the greatest majority of players out there, these things are a serious pain in the $@!.

So far -nothing- you have said suggests that scalloped necks are really all that great...the small advantages you've touted here simply don't outweigh the significant disadvantages for your average player.


Quote:
But if were only accepting something because it's what the majority so far has used, we'd still be playing lutes.


While I do actually agree with your sentiment here to some small degree, in this case I also have to respond by saying "just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should". And just because something is new or different, doesn't mean it's "better". I might even go so far as to say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". In this case, just because something such as scalloped necks work well for a few select people does NOT, in ANY way, suggest it's right for the majority.

To use a colloquialism here, you're trying to say that a person shouldn't jump off a bridge just because everyone else does. In this case however, I would suggest that MAYBE...just maybe...there's a good reason why those people are jumping off the bridge to begin with. Maybe there's even a good reason why we don't see many scalloped fingerboards on violins, cellos and even lutes.

I'm not specifically saying that because most people use traditional fretboards, that everyone should. I'm saying there is a damn good reason that most people play traditional fretboards....there's a significant distinction there. What's more is that I am backing up my reasoning with the simple fact that A LOT of people have produced truly great music without ANY need for this thing that you apparently hold in such high value. If you like it, then I'm truly thrilled for you, however if it were really as great as you keep trying to suggest, then MORE people would use it...the greatest majority don't.



Finally, for the sake of clarity let me say that I'm not actually trying to discourage people (the OP or otherwise) from trying a scalloped fretboard. Quite frankly I don't give a ratt's butt what people play or how they play it. If you wanna smoosh a Twinkie between your guitar strings because you think it will give you better tone (get rid of that oh-so-annoying sustain) and because the cream filling will make it easier to do bends (less friction?)...really...who am I to argue. What I -am- suggesting is that this issue of scalloped vs. traditional fretboards is NOT merely the difference between 2 different styles of guitar or different fret radii (as discussed in another thread), or the difference between distortion pedal A and distortion pedal B, etc.. In this specific case, I'm suggesting that a scalloped fretboard is a very different animal unto itself and what's more is that animal comes with some rather sharp teeth...handle with care. I'm suggesting that should someone be interested in a scalloped fretboard, such as the OP, that they go into this with their eyes WIDE OPEN, as even a person who has YEARS of experience playing guitar is likely to have problems playing scalloped...again scalloped requires a very gentle and refined technique. And most important, I'm suggesting that BEFORE someone goes out and dumps a ton of bread on a scalloped fretboard and potentially ends up with a guitar that they can NOT play (at least not play well), that they should very much try one FIRST. I'm sorry but I just don't see why that's such a bad thing.....


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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:16 pm
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lomitus wrote:
In this specific case, I'm suggesting that a scalloped fretboard is a very different animal unto itself and what's more is that animal comes with some rather sharp teeth...handle with care.

Nobody here suggested otherwise; you're arguing with yourself. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Scalloped neck?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:47 pm
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I Like scalloped potatoes. :P

Seriously though, I had a buddy who did that to a guitar of his for whatever reason and I found it very strange to try to play chords on. I'm by know means any sort of lead player, so maybe that's something that's not suited for me.

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