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Post subject: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:14 pm
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Tone Wood Wars! (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Guitar)

So I've been playing the guitar for many, many years, but I was pretty surprised just how volatile this subject is.

After watching several of these videos, showing various experiments, I've got to say, I really can't tell the difference.

In all fairness, I love a guitar made of ash or alder, but I can really hear a difference myself when the guitar is plugged in. Unplugged, I can hear differences, but plugged in, I'm not hearing it. For me personally, I do believe that all things and materials make some sort of difference in how your guitar performs and sounds, but I believe wood density makes a difference to sustain.

The one thing I'm not a big fan of is the vulgar attitude some youtube people have towards each other. One dude in particular is very angry and filled with vitriol.
I love playing and talking about guitars, but let’s keep it friendly. The tone wood war is non-starter.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:49 pm
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Paris, I'm with you all the way,.. I've been playing for over 50 years, and my ears, well they are good ears..

The only time I really do hear a difference is with acoustic guitars. spruce tops w/maple sides/back verses cedar tops w/mahogany body verses spruce and rosewood. (maple being the most obvious to me)

but with electrics... it's really hard to hear the diff, side by side with the same guitars/pickups with diff wood. Everyone tells me Ash is snappier.. I have a tele with an ash body,, dunno,, just sounds like a tele to me...

I also will say that an SG for example, with 490r/498t pups verses a les paul with the same pups will NOT sound the same. But those are wildly different guitars.

and about the attitudes and the argumentative posture,, life is really too short... some people are born for conflict... the conflict is with in them,, . if there is no conflict, they will create it, I just chuckle at the pointlessness of it all and don't get sucked in.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:23 pm
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What a refreshing thread, I'm in complete agreement with you both!!

Since Larry DiMarzio turned the status quo of pickups on it's ear (deliberate play on words) back in the early '70s, it is overwhelmingly obvious that since then and ever increasingly so, pickups are designed for a predetermined sound. Consequently, a wood's contribution to the amplified tonality of an electric guitar to whatever alleged degree is now minimized all the more. Even Eric Johnson who supposedly can perceive tonality in voltage :lol: has signature pickups made with a predetermined sound as well. Interesting, all around, wouldn't you say? But I tangent.

As you both have stated, all our aforementioned is fodder for a flame war. To me those who feel compelled to pick a fight typifies a close mindedness akin to "My guitar is better than your guitar because it cost so much more". Just like ash vs. alder, relic vs. pristine, etc, who really cares and in terms of "The Big Picture", is it really worth arguing over? As long as the owners of one or many guitars are enjoying it/them, this is all that really matters.

Thank you both for an intelligent and stimulating thread!!

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:59 pm
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Acoustically, I can definitely hear the difference between an Ash bodied, maple necked P and an alder bodied, rosewood boarded P. Easily. However, when they are amplified it's the pick up that makes the biggest difference to me. A 62RI P pick up in an ash bodied, maple necked P sounds a lot like a 62RI P bass amplified. A Raised A 57 P pick up in an Alder bodied, rosewood board P will sound an a lot like a 57RI P. There might seem like there is a difference in how it "feels" in a mix, but I won't say I can "hear" it. The pick ups make a lot more difference to me, and yes. I can HEAR the difference between P bass pick ups. They each have distinct voices. The biggest thing to me is the "feel" of the fretboard. I like the feel of a maple neck under my fingers as opposed to rosewood. I feel like I play faster on maple. Rosewood feels nice and soft and it makes my fingers lazy. :?

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:08 pm
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I must admit i am always enthralled by this topic. I often read through the threads and countless pages written on the subject. I understand the underlying principles but i never understand the insane levels of passion and arguments about it, often to the point of lunacy. The overall tone and feel of a guitar are influenced by the woods used but pickups and amp choice and pedals that twist and contort the sound play such a huge part in the sound. Each choice in the guitars build contribute to the overall sound but nothing contributes more than the person holding the instrument.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:18 pm
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I am with you on this, I can never tell wood tone differences on my solid body electric guitars. I prefer ash and alder, but I do have one mahogany guitar, a cheapo Ibanez RG321 but I think it is the pickups more than the wood that makes that difference in tone on the RG321. Maybe something hard like maple would make a major difference in resonance in a solid body electric. But for other solid body guitars I can't tell any difference. I have been playing since 1964.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:38 pm
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desertbluesman,

Your signature says it all!

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:22 pm
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As to necks, I have heard a discernable tonal difference between maple and rosewood necks. I think that it has to do with how the strings react to the interactions between the fretboard wood and a player's fingers.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:36 pm
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paris wrote:
As to necks, I have heard a discernible tonal difference between maple and rosewood necks. I think that it has to do with how the strings react to the interactions between the fretboard wood and a player's fingers.


I'm going to agree with this but not because of the two different wood species. Rather, the maple fingerboard has a sealed finish whereas the rosewood fingerboard has none. Consequently, the RESONANCE will be different and therefore, the pickup is "hearing" it somewhat differently. As to a player's fingers, absolutely. Any given player's fingers will affect resonance as well.

A footnote: It has been my total experience with maple boards that if the finish is for the most part, removed one way or the other, there is no audible difference between it and a rosewood one.

Again and as always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:05 pm
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I hear more of a difference between almost-similar-except-for-woods guitars when playing at low guitar volume The amp volume doesn't seem to matter unless it's so damn loud that you couldn't even tell a Les Paul apart from a Strat.
I have one chambered Tele, and it definitely sounds different plugged in, in a good way, and more so at half volume.

As for necks, well, stiffer necks do give more sustain (real sustain, not the effect), and thus also longer lasting resonance from non-muted strings. Depending on your style of playing, that could make a noticeable difference.


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:06 pm
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the way it plays and feels? very different,, different levels of sustain and tone but the sound is all pickups, amp and effects


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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:08 pm
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I've been playing guitar for 30-years, been a custom woodworker for 25, and I still don't have any truly logical explanations for this topic.

Some guitars, it just seemed like whatever passive pickup I put in them, they just sounded lifeless. I'd take the pickups and put them in something else and honest to God, they'd come back to life. For whatever reason. With so many variables, it becomes too daunting to try to figure out.

One of my best sounding guitars right now is a plywood bodied Hondo. First I tried a Duncan 59 set in it, then decided to give it a little more output in the bridge and stuck a DiMarzio Tone Zone in it, and the guitar sounds freaking beautiful. I took that pickup out of a Mahogany bodied Schecter because it was really bass heavy.

Why does it work better in the Hondo? I don't even want to begin to try to figure it out. But honestly, it does sound very different.

It's all a strange phenomenon. I'll mess around with a guitar until I get it to sound how I want it to. And if for whatever reason I can't, I'll throw a set of EMGs in it.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:32 pm
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Does the type/quality/rarity of the wood make a difference in tone? Here is a $2500 bass guitar... nuff said! 8)

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:07 pm
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That's a $2,500 future trip to the chiropractor.

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Post subject: Re: Tone Wood Wars!
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:52 pm
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arth1 wrote:
I have one chambered Tele, and it definitely sounds different plugged in, in a good way, and more so at half volume.


If I were to pick some kind of logical angle for differences in materials, this is where I'd start. Chambers, and their variables.

Wood, by nature, has its internal micro chambers. They vary by species. Some woods are very porous, some are not. These pores are micro caverns, and vibrations travel through them differently. Favorably, or unfavorably, is subjective. What surrounds the micro caverns varies in density. Soft or hard can also be considered as extremely fine caverns in a molecular sense. Even to the point of where you come to the Plexi- body Tiger J posted. No pores, but extreme density.

One way or another, the vibration is going to travel and be picked up by the magnetic unit that contains its own variables. Within a guitar, there are so many minute crazy variables, it goes beyond what anyone REALLY cares to try to pinpoint scientifically.

Our ears and concept of sound has its limitations. The human ears hear in a limiting gauge of Hz. And even in that spectrum, there are variables as to what each person hears more prominently than others and finds favorable.

One way or another, a sound is gonna happen. You either like it or you don't and there are some in betweens.

But the amount of variables between guitar, amp, pedals, cables, picks, strings, finger density, bone structure, whether you clipped your finger nails, battery type (actives), fretboard material, fret material, neck size, angle of neck, wood material, bridge type, magnet type, volume pot "K", tone pot "k", pickup output, resistance "k", tone cap type, bridge type, bridge block type, saddle type, saddle design, no block, chambered, non chambered, etc... Etc!!! Etc!!!

Be my guest. Feel free to figure it out. The variables go far beyond what I'm willing to try to logically and scientifically try to come to any viable conclusions.

I had a dog once that would whimper every now and then when I'd try a new sound. I kinda figured his ears were better than mine. Maybe I'd change it just so he wouldn't be tortured by whatever it was that set him off. That's about all the reasoning I needed.

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