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Post subject: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:29 pm
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This is kind of a two pronged inquirey.
1. I've been doing more and more songs where there are acoustic parts, often followed by a heavier electric guitar part. I've been thinking about getting a guitar with a piezo pickup. Does any one use one for gigging. Is it better than just using an acoustic sounding pedal, which is what I've been doing? My one concern is if I have the amp set for clean in order to make the piezo sound good, I would be limited in the tone I get for the next electric part. Right now I have the opposite problem, I'm setting the amp with a bit of crunch and the acoustic pedal is both ice picky and distorted, so not really sounding that great.
2. I've been eyeballing the new Music Man Majesty which is the new John Petrucci signature model. This guitar has a piezo pickup. I'm at the point where I'm using the need for a piezo pickup, as an excuse to buy this guitar. I'm going to go in and play one tomorrow. It'll be my third trip to do a test drive. Has anyone else tried this guitar? My first color choice was the flat black, but I didn't really like it when I saw it. So I left. I'm not sure I'll be able to leave three times.

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:48 pm
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Any excuse to buy a new guitar is a good one!

I have one of my Teles in the shop now to add piezos. Had the same concern so had him send the piezo signal to a separate jack. Then I can run it to my acoustic amp and keep the humbuckers plugged into its usual tube amp. He is also swapping out the 3 way switch for an extra volume pot and all pots will be concentric with spit knobs so all 3 pickups will have independent volume and tone control.


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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:30 pm
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Thanks, that's a cool idea. I know the Majesty doesn't have a second output. In fact you can combine the piezo and regular buckers from it's 3 way switch. Maybe modding one of my current guitars is a better way to go and have it done right.
I guess I'll have to focus on a different reason to buy the Majesty. I'm still going to give it a test drive tomorrow.

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:54 pm
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I hope you got the pickups 4 f ing years ago


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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:19 am
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You can always go from guitar to pedal to clean channel. Then bypass the pedal when using the piezos and kick it in when you switch to electric. My Tonebone has a tube in it and two channels of drive and more drive. I can run it into a clean solidstate amp and get decent tone. Not as good as a tube amp but not bad. I'm sure you can dial your tube amp down enough to get decent tone out of the piezos with the pedal on bypass and still have enough gain to drive the electric pickups when you kick the pedal in. Might want to bring your favorite pedal with you if you go back for another testplay and give it a try. Or use one of theirs. Was pretty much my original plan till I decided to go with the second jack. Liked the idea of having ss amp for acoustic on one side of me and the tube amp for the humbuckers on the other side. Got a tubed preamp to warm up the piezos a bit before it goes into ss amp.


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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:14 am
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Acoustic sims are always inherently problematic. It's just not reasonable to expect a solid body with nickel strings to sound like a hollow body with bronze. Any sim I've ever tried has been disappointing at best and downright awful at the worst. Can you get the singer to strum some chords on a real acoustic?

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:19 am
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Drew365 wrote:
I'm at the point where I'm using the need for a piezo pickup, as an excuse to buy this guitar.


Any excuse to buy a new guitar is a GOOD excuse!

8)

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:31 am
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I like the idea of a separate output for the piezo, but I don't like the idea of lugging around another amp. The two songs we're working on right now are fairly complicated, Zeppelin's Over the Hills and Far Away and Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You. The guitar I'm using sounds great for the electric parts but is a bit too hot for the acoustic, same with the amp. I'll keep thinking it through, but I'll probably either get a piezo installed in one of my current guitars or get a new one with a piezo, so that I have that option. I doubt that I'll buy the Majesty today. It's black and unless it looks different today, I'm going to hold out for a blue or silver. Thanks for the advice, it helps me to sort through these complex, world saving problems. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:29 pm
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I think Fender has or had a Fishman equipped piezo Strat...

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:21 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
I like the idea of a separate output for the piezo, but I don't like the idea of lugging around another amp. The two songs we're working on right now are fairly complicated, Zeppelin's Over the Hills and Far Away and Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You. The guitar I'm using sounds great for the electric parts but is a bit too hot for the acoustic, same with the amp. I'll keep thinking it through, but I'll probably either get a piezo installed in one of my current guitars or get a new one with a piezo, so that I have that option. I doubt that I'll buy the Majesty today. It's black and unless it looks different today, I'm going to hold out for a blue or silver. Thanks for the advice, it helps me to sort through these complex, world saving problems. :lol:


Was ALOT more expensive to add piezos that I thought. About $200 to get the piezos and preamp from Graphtech, the bridge had to go to a machine shop to be notched, and the wiring took a lot of routing, a route for the battery compartment, etc. If I would have had him do it during the original build it would have been simpler. Could have almost had him start over and build me a new one for about the same price. The body is extensively chambered and had plenty of room inside for the components but after the top and bottom was glued together it has taken a lot of labor to install it. The labor for this mod is basically about $150 less than the original build but I caught him shortly after he came out of retirement and before other orders started coming in. Now his prices went up. Mine has Lollartron humbuckers which bumped it up another $400.

I wouldn't want to lug another tube amp around but don't mind carrying a lightweight SS amp to run the piezos through. Still think a good pedal will give you the electric tone you want while having the amp dialed down enough to get good acoustic tone when pedal is bypassed. Had a player in our Praise and Worship band who did that with his Ibanez and it sounded fine.

Today is Friday and my tele was supposed to be done this week - hopefully that means I can pick it up tomorrow.


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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:05 pm
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So, if I was to pick one of my guitars to try to put a piezo in it, which would be the best candidate?
I have two Strats, both have batteries. One is a hard tail string through, the other with an active trem.
I have a thinline Tele with Gibson like stop tail / Tone Pro bridge and two volume, two tone setup.
I have a chambered Les Paul.
Which would be the best choice to try to do the install to?
The luthier I use is a Fishman dealer, so I assume he'll recommend their product.

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:21 pm
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fenderfan wrote:

Was ALOT more expensive to add piezos that I thought. Still think a good pedal will give you the electric tone you want while having the amp dialed down enough to get good acoustic tone when pedal is bypassed. Had a player in our Praise and Worship band who did that with his Ibanez and it sounded fine.


I'll be trying to come up with a temporary solution tomorrow. My immediate problem is I don't have a good acoustic sound. The first thing I have to do is take the cobalt strings off. They sound great for the heavy stuff, but are too hot for acoustic. I'll manage to get by for this next show, but I think I'd like a guitar with a piezo as an option for the future. If a retro fit is really that expensive, then maybe buying the Majesty might be a good financial decision. Yeah, that's the spin I'll use on the wife! :D

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:31 pm
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Tiger J wrote:
I think Fender has or had a Fishman equipped piezo Strat...


The Nashville Deluxe Tele with Power Bridge.

Looks like a regular Tele bridge. 5 way switch, Tex-Mex Tele pickups in bridge and neck, Tex-Mex Strat pickup in the middle. I want one in the sunburst with tort pickguard!

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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:50 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
fenderfan wrote:

Was ALOT more expensive to add piezos that I thought. Still think a good pedal will give you the electric tone you want while having the amp dialed down enough to get good acoustic tone when pedal is bypassed. Had a player in our Praise and Worship band who did that with his Ibanez and it sounded fine.


I'll be trying to come up with a temporary solution tomorrow. My immediate problem is I don't have a good acoustic sound. The first thing I have to do is take the cobalt strings off. They sound great for the heavy stuff, but are too hot for acoustic. I'll manage to get by for this next show, but I think I'd like a guitar with a piezo as an option for the future. If a retro fit is really that expensive, then maybe buying the Majesty might be a good financial decision. Yeah, that's the spin I'll use on the wife! :D


Well, I'm into a little over $200 for the Graphtec Ghost system. Decided I wanted a concentric pot with split knob to control volume and tone, that was extra, and of course the extra jack. Including the machine shop to notch the bridge I'm into about $450 labor. Pretty much the same price as going to Guitar Center and buying a Nashville Deluxe that has piezos already. Does that help you decide? For me Guitar Center is 15 minutes away and he's busy so I've been waiting months to get it back.

Besides, is good excuse to buy another guitar. If I had a wife I'm sure I could spin it!


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Post subject: Re: Piezo Pickups
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:04 pm
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I just lessened my problem considerably by changing the Cobalt strings for DR Pure Blues. I think I'm going to switch amps and I'll get by for the time being. I looked at the Nashville Deluxe on the Fender site here and it doesn't mention a piezo. Maybe that was a limited time model.

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