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Post subject: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:51 am
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Hi knowledgeable Ones!

As you all know from my previous posts, I am pedal shopping for the first time for my new TSA amp. I have been a modeling/processor guy until now but I want to mess around with pedals for the fun of it and to satiate my constant GAS!

My question: to boost volume for soloing etc.; is a boost pedal or a volume pedal a better buy? My TSA is installed with a mild 6db boost circuit that is footswitchable... but I understand that boost pedals are capable of boosting significantly higher. But then again, a volume pedal would just increase volume for leads.

Advice/knowledge greatly appreciated! And I sincerely appreciate all the wisdom you more experienced musicians have been imparting... I love this forum!

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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:22 am
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I prefer a boost pedal because I can set it for the boost I want and get that with one quick button push. With a volume pedal it takes me longer to hit the right spot and sometimes as I release my foot I move it and need to touch it again. But, if you want to bring certain sections of a solo in and out, I guess a volume pedal would be best for that. But that seems like a limited need.
My Vox pedal board has a volume pedal. I use a BBE Boosta Grande through the effects loop, so it doesn't mess with my tone.

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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:39 pm
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Hi Tiger J, simple method would be to use the volume control on the guitar, that way there's no other pedal in the chain, simple no cost, no harm in giving it a go. Sure I read somewhere Jeff Beck and others go this route.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:53 pm
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What about a Morley Volume Plus pedal? Kind of does both.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:07 pm
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I don't use neither.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:04 pm
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I own and have used both. A volume pedal can only take away volume. A Boost pedal increases the signal strength. When dealing with an amp that is low wattage, this needs to be considered.
My volume pedal is the Morley Plus. It works well, but is doing the same thing as the volume pot on the guitar. It has a minimum setting knob so you can always return to a 'normal' volume which is a nice feature. I find I rarely use it anymore and go with a boost pedal. The three I like best for clean or relatively clean (mild OD) boosts are:
MXR m-133....a totally clean boost
Fulltone Fat Boost FB-3...adjustable from very clean to fat/crunchy (but not heavy distortion)
JOYO Sweet Baby....very mild and sweet sounding overdrive and quite possibly the greatest bargain available @ <$40.
I once measured my solo boost levels with a sound meter ( for curiosity more than anything else) and found them to be in the +10 to 12 db range increase. The above three pedals can easily exceed that.

For $40 you will not beat the JOYO Sweet Baby.

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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:20 pm
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I like my Radial Tonebone. 2 channels of tone and more tone depending on whether playing rhythm or lead. Each with own volume and gain control. Bright setting, warm setting, filter, Has its own preamp tube to jumpstart the tone before it gets to the amp. Can make a clean solidstate amp sound pretty good and a good tube amp sound great.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:25 am
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I'm not familiar with the TSA15 combo, how's the dynamics in it?

In general (and of course IMHO), the whole purpose of a tube amp is to overdrive the tubes.
On very dynamic amps, it comes just from how you pick.
On others, the vol control on the guitar is a big part of the OD.

So, experiment - sorta get to know your gear. Of course, if this is a case of serious GAS, buy both pedals.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:36 am
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As usual, these are strictly my own opinions so please take them as such...

If you're simply trying to increase your volume a bit for leads/soloing, I would suggest the volume pedal is actually the better way to go. Baring the use of volume as an effect (ala Jeff Beck), the concept is the same as using the volume control on your guitar (which I do frequently)...you set up the volume on your amp with the volume pedal at full for your lead work, then you back it off a bit for your rhythm work. Pretty straight forward.

A boost pedal on the other hand is more typically used where you have a guitar with weaker pickups (ala a Strat or Tele) to over-drive the pre-amp tubes on a tube amp. When most folks think of "tube distortion", they tend to think of the amp cranked up to 11 ("...but this amp goes to 11", LOL!), however pre-amp tubes can also produce a pleasing distortion and typically at MUCH lower volume levels. Think of a boost pedal much like active electronics on a guitar...basically it gives you a hotter output.

I would also add that boost pedals can have a draw back as well...where a volume pedal is typically little more than a control pot (or very simply circuitry), because a boost pedal uses an amplifier chip (IC) of some kind, they also tend to modify your guitar's tone to one degree or another. As an analogy, consider distortion pedals...think about how many different brands and models there are and while the concept and principle is essentially the same, no two really sound alike. Consider a single company like DOD/Digitech...how many different distortion pedals has this company made? Does a Crossroad's distortion sound like an American Metal? No...of course not. Essentially, because they all use different chips/components, they all sound different. Same goes for boost pedals. Unlike a typical volume pedal, the tone you get out of a boost pedal is NOT the same as the original signal from your guitar. For some folks this is desirable, for others...well...it's not.

Ultimately, like most things guitar related the choice is up to you. Only you can decide what's right for you. That said, if you're simply trying to bring your volume up a bit for leads, the volume pedal may be the better way to go.


Again, just my own $.02...please use it for what it's worth.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:34 am
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lomitus wrote:
...........................Ultimately, like most things guitar related the choice is up to you. Only you can decide what's right for you. That said, if you're simply trying to bring your volume up a bit for leads, the volume pedal may be the better way to go.

Again, just my own $.02...please use it for what it's worth.

I understand your intent and meaning, but technically, the volume pedal does not increase volume. It decreases volume for non-solo, then allows the return to the volume of the amp and guitar as if it weren't there. This means something IF your amp is low powered and struggles to have enough volume. If you have a 'higher powered' amp, it's a moot point.

I'm sure you understand this, but some noobies may not.

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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:07 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
lomitus wrote:
...........................Ultimately, like most things guitar related the choice is up to you. Only you can decide what's right for you. That said, if you're simply trying to bring your volume up a bit for leads, the volume pedal may be the better way to go.

Again, just my own $.02...please use it for what it's worth.

I understand your intent and meaning, but technically, the volume pedal does not increase volume. It decreases volume for non-solo, then allows the return to the volume of the amp and guitar as if it weren't there. This means something IF your amp is low powered and struggles to have enough volume. If you have a 'higher powered' amp, it's a moot point.

I'm sure you understand this, but some noobies may not.



I understand your point in clarifying my explanation, however I did state in my post that this works essentially the same way as the volume knob on your guitar. In fact, I do go so far as to explain that when someone uses a volume pedal, they should turn it up full and adjust the volume of the amp for the lead signal, then reduce the pedal for rhythm use, etc.. To clarify, this is indeed like using the volume control on the guitar...you turn the guitar volume all the way up, set your amp for the lead volume (or the loudest volume you're likely to need), then back off the volume control when you're not playing a solo...same thing, different way of doing it...the pedal just offers an added degree of convenience for some folks. In either case it simply attenuates the signal produced by the guitar's pickups. The amp produces the volume...the volume knob or pedal simply adjusts the level for the appropriate situation.

Perhaps a better way of explaining all of this would be to say that instead of playing "louder" on solos, perhaps a person should consider playing "softer" for non-lead parts. It's just a mental perspective...that whole "the glass is half full/half empty" scenario, but often people forget they can turn the guitar down as well as up. In either case, semantics aside, I have to stand by my original post in that I feel the way one uses a boost pedal is different from how one would use a volume pedal...they're two different things.

The volume of the amp as it pertains to an under powered amp...in my mind at least...is a different matter entirely. If a person is using a low powered amp that can't keep up at a gig (or even a jam/practice), then a pedal...volume, boost, distortion or otherwise, isn't really "a fix". The person either needs to run the amp thru the PA (and many do) or they simply need to get a more powerful amp (and many do). In this case, I'd use a car analogy...it's like trying to tow a 20' camper with a Ford Escort. You can try all the "gadgets" in the world...air shocks, spring helpers, tranny cooler, etc., but at the end of the day, you still need more power. Same goes for a guitar amp...if your amp doesn't have enough power to get the job done, adding "air shocks" isn't really gonna help.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:58 pm
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lomitus
I understood quite well what you meant. My comments were for others; to ensure they understood.
One of the main reasons for clarification in this specific thread is that the OP is starting with a TSA15 which tends to be low volume. With such, the difference between use of a volume pedal and a boost may be a deal breaker. (I have a TSA15, a Morley Vol. Plus, and many Boost pedals.)

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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:07 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
lomitus
One of the main reasons for clarification in this specific thread is that the OP is starting with a TSA15 which tends to be low volume. With such, the difference between use of a volume pedal and a boost may be a deal breaker. (I have a TSA15, a Morley Vol. Plus, and many Boost pedals.)


I simply have to disagree here. As I've said already, a boost pedal simply isn't going to make up for a low/under powered amp. From what I just read, the TSA15 is only a 15 watt amp...I've never used one and it could be a decent sounding amp, but unless you run it into a PA, it's not really going to have enough power for a live band situation.....and a boost pedal is NOT going to change that. It -may- work for a low volume practice/jam session (depending mainly on the the drummer), I suspect it's a great "bedroom amp" and it would probably be fine for some home recording, but for most live/gig situations, 15 watts just isn't enough power without having to mic the amp...35 - 45 watts (depending on the speakers) barely covers most smaller venues.

Don't get me wrong here - there's noting wrong with mic'ing the amp and a lot of folks do it. If it's a great sounding rig, then it's worth mic'ing (or using a line out if available) to the PA...I've seen a lot of folks over the years do this with old Fender Champs and such. If that's the case however, then as you say regarding a more powerful amp - it becomes a moot point.

My take on it is simply this - the right tool for the right job. To give you an example, I have several amps that I use on a regular basis, depending on the specific situation. If I'm sitting here at the computer learning some new riffs or just jamming with some mp3's to keep the fingers loose, then I use my little Roland Microcube. It's a great sounding little amp and I've even used it on a recent recording. It's also battery powered, so it's great to take to the park or riverside...it's even got strap buttons, so I can sling it over my shoulder and use it like a Pignose...I really love that little amp. That said, I would NEVER try to use this amp at a gig or even a full practice session...it does NOT have the power. I could daisy-chain 20 boost pedals and the ONLY thing I'd end up with is a nasty muddled sound that's STILL not loud enough. For most gigs, I usually use my Lab L5...100 watt 2 x12 combo. It's a -great- sounding amp (not to mention pretty flexible tone-wise), it's pretty reasonable to haul around and it has MORE than enough power for just about any gig I've played in my 30+ years as a musician. If it's a smaller venue, I -may- use my Bugera V22...another great sounding amp, but at 22 watts, it's still hard to get a clean sound out of it that's loud enough to work with a live drummer. I have used my old Bandmaster many times over the years, however as I'm getting older, hauling a head and 2 x 12 cab around gets tedious. Then for jams/practices, I typically use one of my smaller Peavey's or my Fender Princeton 112 Plus...none of them are really "great" sounding amps, but they're loud enough for a decent jam, they do the job and are VERY easy on the lower back to haul around. In this case I'll try a quick carpenter's analogy...you wouldn't use a jackhammer to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture, however if you NEED a jackhammer, then a framing hammer just isn't gonna cut it. Again, the right tool for the right job.

It comes down to this - if the amp doesn't have enough power to do the job, a boost pedal isn't going to change that...that's just not what a boost pedal is for. Again, the amp either needs to be mic'd or the player needs a more powerful amp. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that.


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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:18 pm
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Post subject: Re: Boost or Volume pedal?
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:50 am
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Lomitus kind of brings up a good point. The OP is talking about soloing. What are you soloing against with a 15 watt amp? I guess if it's just for practicing against an MP3 track, all you really need is about a 6db gain. If it's with live musicians your volume is going to be pretty much overwhelmed by the other instruments no matter what you do.

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