It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:27 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:00 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:55 am
Posts: 55
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp. Since you will have to run all the pedals in a chain the more pedals you have the worse it will sound. If the amp had a separate input for effects like chorus, reverb and delay it would be easier to work with. Now if you are only going to run a distortion, chorus, reverb and delay that'll work. If you want to run a wah, boost, distortion, fuzz, chorus, phaser, tremelo, double delay and reverb it's just not going to sound good at all.

_________________
Fender Supersonic 100
Fender Twin Reverb
Marshall JVM410h
Peavey Vypyr 120
Fender Guitars
Ibanez Guitars
ESP Guitars


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:29 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 176
It depends on the pedals and how the amp takes them. I did it for years with my Roland JC and it sounded just fine.

*Wah
*SD pickup booster
*Boss Tuner
*Voodoo Labs Trem
*Proco Solo Dist
*Digitech Envelope filter
*Digitech Super Phaser
*DOD flanger
*Marshall Echohead delay

All through the front. Did many shows like this.

_________________
YMMV


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:33 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp. Since you will have to run all the pedals in a chain the more pedals you have the worse it will sound. If the amp had a separate input for effects like chorus, reverb and delay it would be easier to work with. Now if you are only going to run a distortion, chorus, reverb and delay that'll work. If you want to run a wah, boost, distortion, fuzz, chorus, phaser, tremelo, double delay and reverb it's just not going to sound good at all.


Running nine pedals simultaneously is not going to sound good no matter what amp you have. No performing artist does that. There may be a dozen effects on a pedalboard, but it's rare to have more than 3-4 of them switched in, and usually fewer.

The benefit of having an effects loop is that you can add effects to a signal already broken up by the pre-amp. Especially reverb benefits from being applied after the pre-amp so it reverbs the whole signal, instead of having the pre-amp breaking up the reverb effect too, which makes the reverb sound artificial.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:31 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:55 am
Posts: 55
shred6 wrote:
It depends on the pedals and how the amp takes them. I did it for years with my Roland JC and it sounded just fine.

*Wah
*SD pickup booster
*Boss Tuner
*Voodoo Labs Trem
*Proco Solo Dist
*Digitech Envelope filter
*Digitech Super Phaser
*DOD flanger
*Marshall Echohead delay

All through the front. Did many shows like this.


Doesn't the Roland JC have an effects send/return jacks in the back?

_________________
Fender Supersonic 100
Fender Twin Reverb
Marshall JVM410h
Peavey Vypyr 120
Fender Guitars
Ibanez Guitars
ESP Guitars


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:11 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 176
I can't speak for the JC120, but the JC50 doesn't. It does have a slave out that allows you to hook it up to another amplifier. A very cool feature I used a few times to do a JC/Fender sound in stereo.

The thing is, 4 of the pedals are buffered while 4 are true bypass. A nice healthy balance. Plus, the effects have "level" functions so I could balance the amounts coming into the front end.

I recorded our whole album using the same pedal board. I ran two lines out of my Boss tuner. One to the JC and chained to a Fender 85. The other to a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 410.

You can hear some of the recordings here: https://www.reverbnation.com/haleamano/songs
*Recession
*Jah Soldier
*Sky Down
*Hold Me In Your Arms

All done from my pedal board straight into the front of the amps, then mic'd.

Interesting to note, I didn't have the Proco yet. These recordings were done with a Biyang Metal End distortion pedal. Possibly the most underrated for versatility. It's not just for Metal. All of the solos were done using it. And the Jah Soldier solo was the only one done with single coils. I used a Squier Classic Vibe on that solo.

_________________
YMMV


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:37 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp. Since you will have to run all the pedals in a chain the more pedals you have the worse it will sound. If the amp had a separate input for effects like chorus, reverb and delay it would be easier to work with. Now if you are only going to run a distortion, chorus, reverb and delay that'll work. If you want to run a wah, boost, distortion, fuzz, chorus, phaser, tremelo, double delay and reverb it's just not going to sound good at all.



I have to respectfully disagree here. All of the sounds that rocked the world way back were done without effect loops or even true bypass. Depending where you put the effects in the chain and the type of effect used determines your sound. There are no rules or right or wrong. Play around until you find what suits you. If you do use an effects loop, I would suggest using only time based effects in it. I only have one amp with an effects loop and never use it. I have one pedal board that has anywhere from eight to ten pedals on it, many of which I built and modded myself. It just depends on what type of music I'm playing that night. Effects are fun and addictive. Basics are Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz, a chorus and a wah. Just use what you need. It's no biggie and don't let someone's "rules" keep you from experimenting. As far as reverb goes, I can take it or leave it. A great sounding amp with a good cabinet will have a nice resonance to it. I don't miss reverb in either my 5e3 or Marshall 1974x clones. As far as digital reverb goes, I'll take tube reverb any day of the week. I own both a digital reverb that I built and a tube driven outboard reverb that I also built. Mant digital reverbs are riddled with digital artifacts when hit hard with a signal. Just my two cents YMMV.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:05 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1019
Location: State of Confusion
63supro wrote:
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp. Since you will have to run all the pedals in a chain the more pedals you have the worse it will sound. If the amp had a separate input for effects like chorus, reverb and delay it would be easier to work with. Now if you are only going to run a distortion, chorus, reverb and delay that'll work. If you want to run a wah, boost, distortion, fuzz, chorus, phaser, tremelo, double delay and reverb it's just not going to sound good at all.

I have to respectfully disagree here. All of the sounds that rocked the world way back were done without effect loops or even true bypass. Depending where you put the effects in the chain and the type of effect used determines your sound. There are no rules or right or wrong. Play around until you find what suits you. If you do use an effects loop, I would suggest using only time based effects in it. I only have one amp with an effects loop and never use it. I have one pedal board that has anywhere from eight to ten pedals on it, many of which I built and modded myself. It just depends on what type of music I'm playing that night. Effects are fun and addictive. Basics are Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz, a chorus and a wah. Just use what you need. It's no biggie and don't let someone's "rules" keep you from experimenting. As far as reverb goes, I can take it or leave it. A great sounding amp with a good cabinet will have a nice resonance to it. I don't miss reverb in either my 5e3 or Marshall 1974x clones. As far as digital reverb goes, I'll take tube reverb any day of the week. I own both a digital reverb that I built and a tube driven outboard reverb that I also built. Mant digital reverbs are riddled with digital artifacts when hit hard with a signal. Just my two cents YMMV.
I mostly agree with 63Supro on this. I'm too lazy to use a 4 cord hookup and some of my amps don't have a loop (a 5E3 also). I don't see enough difference to warrant the 4 cord, but I do think pedal sequence can make a noticeable difference.

_________________
The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:12 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 4099
Location: New York
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp.

The amp in the O.P.?

TSA15 15W Guitar Combo Amplifier
output Pentode - 15W / Triode - 5W@4Ω/ 8Ω/ 16Ω
tube Pre Amp : 12AX7 x 2, Power Amp : 6V6GT x 2
speaker 12" Celestion® Seventy80
controls Tube Screamer switch, Boost switch, Master Volume, Bass, Treble
Tube Screamer section: Overdrive, Tone, Level, output power select (rear)
i/o's Guitar Input, Foot Switch Jack, Effect Loop (Send/Return), Speaker output
cabinet Semi open back
speaker output 2 x 4Ω , 2 x 8Ω , 1 x 16Ω
size (mm) 435 (W) x 222 (D) x 435 (H)
size (inch) 17.1" (W) x 8.7" (D) x 17.1" (H)
weight 15.0kg [33.0lbs]

_________________
Please subscribe to my Image Channel!
https://www.youtube.com/user/b7567


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:22 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
strings10927 wrote:
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp.

The amp in the O.P.?

TSA15 15W Guitar Combo Amplifier
output Pentode - 15W / Triode - 5W@4Ω/ 8Ω/ 16Ω
tube Pre Amp : 12AX7 x 2, Power Amp : 6V6GT x 2
speaker 12" Celestion® Seventy80
controls Tube Screamer switch, Boost switch, Master Volume, Bass, Treble
Tube Screamer section: Overdrive, Tone, Level, output power select (rear)
i/o's Guitar Input, Foot Switch Jack, Effect Loop (Send/Return), Speaker output
cabinet Semi open back
speaker output 2 x 4Ω , 2 x 8Ω , 1 x 16Ω
size (mm) 435 (W) x 222 (D) x 435 (H)
size (inch) 17.1" (W) x 8.7" (D) x 17.1" (H)
weight 15.0kg [33.0lbs]


I've tried that little Ibanez and I was pretty impressed with it. I liked it much better than a Blues Jr. It was a bit more versatile too. The tone was full and rich with some nice top end sparkle. The BJ, just it's old thin boxy self. Fender needs to offer that as a lunchbox head with a nice cabinet and a good speaker. Seems to have a lot of potential. I can't say anything about reliability after a half hour of messing with it, but it did sound pretty cool. Like I said, I can't be bothered with an effects loop anyway and it would never be a deal breaker in an amp purchase. None of my BF or SF Fender amps ever had one. Some people live and die by them though.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:33 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm
Posts: 638
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp. Since you will have to run all the pedals in a chain the more pedals you have the worse it will sound. If the amp had a separate input for effects like chorus, reverb and delay it would be easier to work with. Now if you are only going to run a distortion, chorus, reverb and delay that'll work. If you want to run a wah, boost, distortion, fuzz, chorus, phaser, tremelo, double delay and reverb it's just not going to sound good at all.


The TSA amps have send/receive effects loops... there were a few pre-production demo models shipped out that didn't but they all do now. They also offer way more cabinet connection diversity than BJr.

I am a Fender fan and wanted a BJr. for quite awhile, don't get me wrong! But two prominent pro-guitar shop owners I know both steered me toward the Ibanez TSA as a more functional alternative. (And neither had one to sell me! - I had to purchase online.) My intent with the amp is for home use.

I am new to stompboxes hence my OP; but I have gathered a little from tweaking the Mustang, online browsing and talking to musicians - I will run:

Guitar to Tuner (if I get a pedal tuner)
Tuner to Wah
Wah to Gain
Gain to front of amp

Effects send to Chorus
Chorus to Flanger/Delay and/or Trem
F/D/T to Reverb
Reverb to Effects receive

Doubt I would buy more than 5 or 6 pedals and am looking at ones with true-bypass. But, as always, I am open to all suggestions and advice!

_________________
Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:41 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1019
Location: State of Confusion
63supro wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
NYStan wrote:
IMO the problem with the amp you decided on buying is all the effects pedals get plugged in the front of the amp.

The amp in the O.P.?

TSA15 15W Guitar Combo Amplifier
output Pentode - 15W / Triode - 5W@4Ω/ 8Ω/ 16Ω
tube Pre Amp : 12AX7 x 2, Power Amp : 6V6GT x 2
speaker 12" Celestion® Seventy80
controls Tube Screamer switch, Boost switch, Master Volume, Bass, Treble
Tube Screamer section: Overdrive, Tone, Level, output power select (rear)
i/o's Guitar Input, Foot Switch Jack, Effect Loop (Send/Return), Speaker output
cabinet Semi open back
speaker output 2 x 4Ω , 2 x 8Ω , 1 x 16Ω
size (mm) 435 (W) x 222 (D) x 435 (H)
size (inch) 17.1" (W) x 8.7" (D) x 17.1" (H)
weight 15.0kg [33.0lbs]


I've tried that little Ibanez and I was pretty impressed with it. I liked it much better than a Blues Jr. It was a bit more versatile too. The tone was full and rich with some nice top end sparkle. The BJ, just it's old thin boxy self. Fender needs to offer that as a lunchbox head with a nice cabinet and a good speaker. Seems to have a lot of potential. I can't say anything about reliability after a half hour of messing with it, but it did sound pretty cool. Like I said, I can't be bothered with an effects loop anyway and it would never be a deal breaker in an amp purchase. None of my BF or SF Fender amps ever had one. Some people live and die by them though.

The TSA15 does NOT have an effects loop in the conventional sense.
What it has is a 'patch' that allows the placement of effects after the tubescreamer circuitry rather than in front as occurs with the amp's input. It is NOT between the preamp and power amp. (Check out the block diagram.). So, what it gives is the ability to place the tubescreamer in line with other pedals as if it were a pedal in the input chain.

The BJr. suffers from the cab size and speaker creating what many consider a 'boxy' sound. I converted my BJr. to a head and drive a 2X12 cabinet with speakers of my choice. Huge difference! Not worth the $$$ to start this project with a new one, but if you could get a used one for <$300, it is very nice. If Fender would offer the BJr. in head form for $75 to $100 less than the combo, it would be a great low powered amp; and if you already owned a quality 2X12 or 4X12 cabinet, would be worth it. Otherwise, it's way overpriced and just so-so sound quality. JMO YMMV

_________________
The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1019
Location: State of Confusion
Thought I'd show the proof to my comments on the TSA15's "effects loop". Ibanez has been misleading in the use of that term and I don't expect anyone to believe me since I'm just another person on the internet and there are so many here that are FOS!

Here's the link to the manual showing the block diagram on the bottom of page 1: http://www.ibanez.co.jp/world/manual/amp/TSA15.pdf
And here's the written description of the "effects loop":
16. SEND Jack: This is an output for the TUBESCREAMER and
BOOST circuit. This should be used if you would like to add additional
effects after the TUBESCREAMER. Connect send to the input
of your outboard effects devices.
17. RETURN Jack: This is an input to the amplifier back from your
outboard effect devices. Connect the output of your effects device
to this input. This jack connects to the input of tube circuit. You can
also use this amplifier as a pure tube amplifier if you connect your
guitar to this input directly. (This will completely bypass the TUBESCREAMER
circuit all together.)
NOTE: Using the boost function with other devices connected afterwards
in the chain may cause distortion to the input of the device
especially when used with high gain pickups.

Shouldn't be any doubt now. This little amp is a well kept secret...very nice, and a good value, especially for those of us already owning speaker cabs and buying the head version. As I (and others) have mentioned, I've not found the absence of a true effects loop to be an issue.

_________________
The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:43 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm
Posts: 638
My TSA15 should be arriving today... I am excited!

I highly second the suggestion to Fender that they offer a Blues Jr. head... especially one that is compatible with the Mustang V cabinet!

In my neck of the woods, a BJr. cannot be found used for $300 unless there are stated defects or the amp is in very rough condition. I agree that it seems pricey for what it is... I was almost wondering if I would be better off with a Champion 600 at under $200 for a home-use tube amp before I was turned on to the TSA. Also, I had no idea what the differences are between the older US-made silver-faced BJrs and the BJ III. My second big concern was its living room playability even at 15-watts. I love the feature of the TSA that it can be switched to 5-watts.

I will post my thoughts when I get a chance to noodle with it... will try to avoid the "honeymoon" bias!

Also, TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb pedal is on the way! :D

_________________
Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:52 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 176
63supro wrote:
I own both a digital reverb that I built and a tube driven outboard reverb that I also built. Mant digital reverbs are riddled with digital artifacts when hit hard with a signal. Just my two cents YMMV.


That's pretty much what I encountered. If it wasn't for the Heidkamp being a hand wired Dumble clone, I might not have gone through the trouble. No effects loop is no big deal to me. No reverb tank is more of an issue for me. It won't matter much on band settings, but man, when you hear most pedals alone, the digital comes out front and center.

I think if I go any smaller than the Ampeg, I'd most likely save a little more and go with a Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18.

*Has reverb
*Effects loop
*DI out
*External speaker out
*Power soak from 18-5-1-0.
*Auto Bias feature

Hughes & Kettner goes all out with their features and I think it's worth the extra cash. To each his own.

_________________
YMMV


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Can O' Worms: What are the essential pedals?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:39 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
I like my Redial Tonebone! Has a preamp tube so even makes my clean solidstate amp sound pretty good. Has 2 channels I can toggle between depending on how much drive I want.

Have had several pedals that do alot but nothing very well so gave up on the Line 6 & Digitech multipurpose type pedals. Don't like going through hundreds of available presets just to find 3 or 4 that sound decent - then hope can find then again when I want them.

Also have a tubed preamp - not much gain but does add alot of warmth to acoustic guitar, mikes, and keyboards. My Peavey amp has fake tube effects but adding the preamp tube to the signal really helps the tone no matter what I plug into it.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: