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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:52 am
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pyroman wrote:

It's also a plus that they make other versions of their guitars in different configurations. Why pander only to the vintage spec fanatics and collectors. Aren't there enough actual vintage instruments out there to "invest" in? To me, it seems kind of stupid to keep building the same well known flaws into guitars decade after decade just to keep the vintage spec guys from squawking... But again, the other brands with iconic models offer alternate versions as well. Everyone wins. (except for our wallets!)



I suppose a comment like this might hold more weight if it wasn't loaded with condescension. Also, if an American Standard was such an "obvious" technological improvement on the Vintage Spec model then I'm sure it'd go also command a higher price. Yet it doesn't. You can get a gimmicky knock off anywhere. Fender is the only place you can get the real deal. That's what I love about Fender.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:46 pm
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jeffo46 wrote:
I personally think that robotic tuners, which we all know Gibson are using on the majority of their electric guitars , are for lazy people and a complete waste of time. Besides, their product is just way overpriced and a lot of their QC isn't that great compared to Fender's. I have never had any issues or problems with any Fender gear I have used or owned in my 43 years of playing guitar. Do they have too much product out today ? Yeah I think they do, but they are first and foremost a business and that is how you advance and survive by being innovative and givng the public what they want and IMO, Fender has always done that but, at a much more reasonable cost than Gibson.


Yes I had to remove that robo tuner from my Les Paul Signature T. I wanted an ebony one that had chrome hardware.

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I fixed it, the tuner sucked it did what it was supposed to do but... If you turned them yourself they sound like a gyro toy car and turn in the wrong direction. I tune in E standard and drop D on a few songs, I think I can handle it. I traded a guy the robo tuner for a set of Grover Rotomatics.

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Last Gibson USA I will buy unless they remove the crap and revert back. I spent my income tax on a new American Standard Stratocaster this year.


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:52 pm
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Have we really veered that far away from the basics. It's a matter of learning the tool and making it yours isn't it, even when it's far less than perfect. We're spoiled and looking for more. The manufacturers are only feeding on what we desire, which continues to scream "That's not enough, gimme more, I'm a king, serve me." And that, my friend, is why we're now the "United States of China".


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:02 pm
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pyroman wrote:
... the fact that you can get a Strat or a Tele, and have them still be basically the same as they always were, is a plus. AND they are relatively affordable for a flagship guitar. Yes, there are crazy expensive CS Fenders out there. But the American Standard Strat is still under $1400. That's pretty reasonable for a high quality US made icon, complete with a hard case. And if you can't afford the American Standard, there are plenty of other price points- a lot of them damn good. For comparison's sake, The LP Traditional is over $3 grand...

Okay ... we are officially in left field. You can buy a Gibson SG Standard (and I believe a Firebird, too) at the "still under $1400" price point. And there are many more even less expensive Gibsons, too. And to compare a Strat Am Standard to a Les Paul Standard is not fair as there is a LOT more that goes into the Gibson. For me, I bought a brand new Les Paul Std Trad Pro from GC for only $1700 back four or so years ago, which is pretty affordable in my book for a (relatively) full-featured Les Paul -- and I believe GC still has a similar line today (not sure, though). Look, I like Fenders and think they are fairly priced ... I just think the Gibson bashing is a little inaccurate.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:53 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
pyroman wrote:
... the fact that you can get a Strat or a Tele, and have them still be basically the same as they always were, is a plus. AND they are relatively affordable for a flagship guitar. Yes, there are crazy expensive CS Fenders out there. But the American Standard Strat is still under $1400. That's pretty reasonable for a high quality US made icon, complete with a hard case. And if you can't afford the American Standard, there are plenty of other price points- a lot of them damn good. For comparison's sake, The LP Traditional is over $3 grand...

Okay ... we are officially in left field. You can buy a Gibson SG Standard (and I believe a Firebird, too) at the "still under $1400" price point. And there are many more even less expensive Gibsons, too. And to compare a Strat Am Standard to a Les Paul Standard is not fair as there is a LOT more that goes into the Gibson. For me, I bought a brand new Les Paul Std Trad Pro from GC for only $1700 back four or so years ago, which is pretty affordable in my book for a (relatively) full-featured Les Paul -- and I believe GC still has a similar line today (not sure, though). Look, I like Fenders and think they are fairly priced ... I just think the Gibson bashing is a little inaccurate.

The Les Paul Classic was the one to get until they made it so wierd with robo tuner adjustable nut wider neck and battery booster mini toggle. I was buying the Classics Signature T etc. They were all $1899, I just glad Fender kept they're tech down to a model or two and not the whole line.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:59 pm
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You know eventually tech will come to every model and every brand. We fight the tech as guitarist wanting to be traditional and classic but eventually the Strats Les Pauls Marshalls and pedals we use will be in museums.

My grand kids kids will say look what grandpa used to use its so old.
There will be no more wood and it will all be synthetic.
The future is going to be here and we can't stop it so I'm holding onto everything I got now.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:31 pm
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I don't think so...

We like Les Pauls and Strats, guitars designed 60 years ago, and we even still play acoustics.

I don't think the classic models are ever going to be at museums due to being out of date.

Not at all.

That's why I'm all for "keep the tech coming, but spare the classics, keep making them".

Anyhoo, I am keeping my all man-played and man-tuned American strat. I like it like it is, a guitar made out of wood, with passive pickups, which I can tune and play with my own fingers and ears.

After all, that's why I am a guitar player in the first place. If I wanted it "done for me", I'd be a DJ.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:30 am
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Hello de Melo,
An interesting thread that has gone through some curves and turns but still reaches an important point.
One of my favorite news items in the arts section of the local newspaper is whenever a stringed instrument player is hired by our symphony orchestra a paragraph or two is focused on the instrument that they bring with them to play, violin, cello, contrabass, the viol family. The maker of the instrument and in many instances the age of the instrument culminate in a price point exceeding 20k USD and apparently if one is not the owner of such a fine instrument one need not apply.
Key here is stringed instrument. All of the copies of Fender designs (I''ve had a couple and played more than enough to know) are that only. A Fender solid body electric guitar and electric bass guitar sound different than all of the rest. If you want the best sound for your band or combo, your players must have the best instruments.
In our favor is the fact that Leo and George developed a design that works for their 200 USD models as well as for their 2K USD models. The choice is up to the player. If you have deep pockets buy a beauty, if you don't have pockets or have short arms buy what you can afford. It is a Fender, a good decision each and every time. In the future of music, no matter how techno it gets, a good electric guitar will always be welcome.
Like you de Melo, :wink: I choose and still love Fender.

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:44 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Hello de Melo,
An interesting thread that has gone through some curves and turns but still reaches an important point.
One of my favorite news items in the arts section of the local newspaper is whenever a stringed instrument player is hired by our symphony orchestra a paragraph or two is focused on the instrument that they bring with them to play, violin, cello, contrabass, the viol family. The maker of the instrument and in many instances the age of the instrument culminate in a price point exceeding 20k USD and apparently if one is not the owner of such a fine instrument one need not apply.
Key here is stringed instrument. All of the copies of Fender designs (I''ve had a couple and played more than enough to know) are that only. A Fender solid body electric guitar and electric bass guitar sound different than all of the rest. If you want the best sound for your band or combo, your players must have the best instruments.
In our favor is the fact that Leo and George developed a design that works for their 200 USD models as well as for their 2K USD models. The choice is up to the player. If you have deep pockets buy a beauty, if you don't have pockets or have short arms buy what you can afford. It is a Fender, a good decision each and every time. In the future of music, no matter how techno it gets, a good electric guitar will always be welcome.
Like you de Melo, :wink: I choose and still love Fender.


+100

8)

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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:40 am
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Great discussion going on here.

If you spend any time on the Gibson Forum, (where I tend to lurk quite a lot) you'll find this opinion on leaving things as they've been is the majority of the opinion. some guys like the changes, most of us, don't

Personally I'd rather Gibson kept the Standards, -- well, standard, and instead created some other product line that had all this stuff on it.. Les Paul Modern Standard or something silly like that,,, anything other than forcing these "innovations" on the traditional formula.

Auto tuners, zero fret, push/pull coil taps. all great if you desire these addons, but if you don't, and you're in the market for a new Les Paul, you're pimped. Not only has the price almost doubled in the last few years, they're loaded with stuff I've got no interest in. (It's also been widely debated that the brass zero fret is a problem, material is too soft and it's just disintegrating)

I have five Gibson's that I've had going back to the mid 90s, up thru 2012. I don't think I'd buy a brand new Gibson right now, OTOH, I bought a new Amer Std. strat about a year ago - it's perfect,.. mostly because other than the pickups, it's pretty much like my mid 90s strat, just with a maple neck and fat 50s pickups.


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:34 am
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jeffo46 wrote:
I personally think that robotic tuners, which we all know Gibson are using on the majority of their electric guitars , are for lazy people and a complete waste of time. Besides, their product is just way overpriced and a lot of their QC isn't that great compared to Fender's. I have never had any issues or problems with any Fender gear I have used or owned in my 43 years of playing guitar.


I think the problem with Gibson is that they are forcing the consumer into a corner, they are implementing
new changes like robo tuners wider fretboards different logos etc. as standard when it should be optional. I think fender has got a better idea in that they can eg. manufacture a Squier with a wacky colour or pickup combination but they leave the Fender formular alone.
Gibson should leave the "gibson" formular alone.
They could have robo tuners and god knows what on Epiphone and it wont create so much stink!!


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:19 am
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nick0 wrote:
I think fender has got a better idea in that they can eg. manufacture a Squier with a wacky colour or pickup combination but they leave the Fender formular alone.

Um, come again?

The Strat with plug-in "personality" cards is a Fender, not a Squier.
S1 switching is on Fenders, not Squiers.
The Jim Root Jazzmaster with a single volume knob and no other buttons is a Fender, not a Squier.
The bound fingerboards are Fender, not Squier.
The new Telecaster 3-barrel offset barrel bridge is a Fender, not a Squier.
... and so on.

Neither Gibson nor Fender do the experiments in their cheap line - those lines are for cheap products, and to keep the price down, they're based on existing successes.


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:21 pm
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arth1 wrote:
nick0 wrote:
I think fender has got a better idea in that they can eg. manufacture a Squier with a wacky colour or pickup combination but they leave the Fender formular alone.

Um, come again?

The Strat with plug-in "personality" cards is a Fender, not a Squier.
S1 switching is on Fenders, not Squiers.
The Jim Root Jazzmaster with a single volume knob and no other buttons is a Fender, not a Squier.
The bound fingerboards are Fender, not Squier.
The new Telecaster 3-barrel offset barrel bridge is a Fender, not a Squier.
... and so on.

Neither Gibson nor Fender do the experiments in their cheap line - those lines are for cheap products, and to keep the price down, they're based on existing successes.


Micky mouse auto tuners, brass zero frets, downgrade of the wood, etc....these are not upgrades!!!
These by many are considered DOWNGRADES.



T


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:51 pm
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nick0 wrote:
Micky mouse auto tuners, brass zero frets, downgrade of the wood, etc....these are not upgrades!!!
These by many are considered DOWNGRADES.

Who said anything about upgrades, except you, just now?

And it's not like the Tronical tuner is a downgrade, because you can still use the tuners the way you always have. It gives you an extra option, if you want to use it, and if you don't, don't.
As for brass nuts, I don't see a lot of complaints about Gretch using them. If Gibson just used a zeroth fret to cut costs, it would be quite another thing, but they use them with a nut that improves sustain, just like in higher end Vigier guitars. And I haven't heard any complaints about those.
The change to crappier wood happened several decades ago, when the hard Brazilian rosewood was replaced with the much softer Indian or Honduran rosewood. And no, you're not getting Brazilian rosewood and ivory nuts back.
But don't let mere facts hinder your righteous rant.

Some people seem allergic to change and want the 50s back. And for them, all manufacturers oblige and produce "vintage" style instruments. The best of both worlds. But I won't let naysayers hold me back when I do want a high quality instrument with modern features.


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Post subject: Re: One of the reasons why I still love Fender.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:17 pm
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nick0 wrote:
I think fender has got a better idea in that they can eg. manufacture a Squier with a wacky colour or pickup combination but they leave the Fender formular alone.


+1, thanks nick0 . I own a wacky Squier, it was crazy love at first sight. :lol: 8)

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