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What type amp do you take to a gig?
Non-modeling amp, Tube or SS, w/ cabinet 40%  40%  [ 12 ]
Modeling Amp w/ cabinet (Mustang and like) 27%  27%  [ 8 ]
Modeling Amp wo/ cabinet (footswitch or rack etc.) 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Non-modeling amp w/modeling pedal(s) and FX 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Other 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 30
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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:00 am
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Brian, you still have a Sovtek? MIG 50 by any chance? Those things were really sweet. I had a Sunn Scepter with the 4x12 cab back in my younger glory days.

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:48 am
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All this reminded me when I was in a signal company in Vietnam in the 60's. We had an old radio repairman that started his trade in the German army in WWll. He didn't like anything transistor because of the problems when they failed. He used to say our tube equipment was a snap to isolate the problem and 99% of the time just replace a tube. With transistors you were replacing circuit boards at more time and expense, often just pitching the whole unit. Of course, he had robust military spec. equipment and tubes to work with in an air conditioned trailer that cost as much as a house to keep them cool. He considered our PX bought transistors as throwaway junk when we asked him to fix them.


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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:58 am
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tvr1979 wrote:
All this reminded me when I was in a signal company in Vietnam in the 60's. We had an old radio repairman that started his trade in the German army in WWll. He didn't like anything transistor because of the problems when they failed. He used to say our tube equipment was a snap to isolate the problem and 99% of the time just replace a tube. With transistors you were replacing circuit boards at more time and expense, often just pitching the whole unit. Of course, he had robust military spec. equipment and tubes to work with in an air conditioned trailer that cost as much as a house to keep them cool. He considered our PX bought transistors as throwaway junk when we asked him to fix them.



As someone who worked in the Signal Corps even later on down the line from you I have to say I agree with him.

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:25 am
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I tried a ss modeling amp and a digital multi-fx modeling pedal. No question about the great variety, but the sound was 'almost but not quite' to me. I've also tried an 8-10 unit pedal board with a tube amp and found it distracting.

So, for me, it's an all tube amp (currently a 5E3 clone) and a 3 pedal setup: 1) Mr. Black Deluxe (combination reverb and tremolo), 2) Fulltone FB-3 (for mild OD), and a 3) Wampler '57 Tweed (for distortion).

As the old cliche goes: Les is More :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:37 am
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Agreed. Throughout the years I've found my way back to an all tube bass rig. I still haven't found the need for the "modern" channel on either my Bassman 100T or Super Bassman 300. My signal chain is Pbass-cable-head-cable-cab. Everything I need I can get from that. If the 100T doesn't have enough oomph for a big job then I have the Super Bassman. For guitar I think a simple Fender tube amp with spring reverb would probably give me about everything I'd want for anything I'd want to do. Just replace the P bass with some sort of Telecaster. I guess it depends on what you play, and what you want to do with it.

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:05 am
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but the sound was 'almost but not quite'

this is it exactly. I used my M IV for a few gigs, while I did like the easy of moving / setup etc, it was the nuances I missed. Not to say I will leave the M IV at home, but, it definitely a decision that has to be made based on the venue.

Like a multi band show, like a benefit etc ,where you gotta get on, and get off quick I'll bring the Stang IV every time.

A three or four set ( eg: full night) gig with the band,, the Marshall Combo w/the extension cab and the full pedal board is coming along.


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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:22 am
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63supro wrote:
Brian, you still have a Sovtek? MIG 50 by any chance? Those things were really sweet. I had a Sunn Scepter with the 4x12 cab back in my younger glory days.


Yes, I do! In my main punk rock band it is my gigging amp.

Image

Sovtek actually had two somewhat different MiG 50 models. The regular MiG 50 was a standard-size head (roughly as big as most Marshall heads) with no master volume. I have the other one, the MiG 50H, which was marketed as and more commonly called the "Tube Midget." It was in a smaller sized head, and had a master volume.

Here's my rig for my main band, set up for practice in the garage at Casa Krashpad:

Image

My Sunn head is a 200S, from sometime pre-'69, technically a bass amp, but like the early Fender Bassman, sounds great for guitar.

Image

Here it is with a DIY 2x12 cab, at a gig with a former side band:

Image


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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:50 am
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63supro wrote:
The stuff starts when someone with a modeling amp tries to convince old tube guys that they sound the same as the real thing
The statement I see more often is "99% of your audience won't know the difference". IMO, if you hid my Mustang III behind a vintage amp, with a vintage sound dialed in, playing with a full band, nobody in my audience would question it. So lets just say 10 out of 8000 people in your audience can hear the difference. Is it worth the extra cost/weight/hassle to please 10 people? The answer is YES (for some people, just not for me). :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:22 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The stuff starts when someone with a modeling amp tries to convince old tube guys that they sound the same as the real thing
The statement I see more often is "99% of your audience won't know the difference". IMO, if you hid my Mustang III behind a vintage amp, with a vintage sound dialed in, playing with a full band, nobody in my audience would question it. So lets just say 10 out of 8000 people in your audience can hear the difference. Is it worth the extra cost/weight/hassle to please 10 people? The answer is YES (for some people, just not for me). :mrgreen:


I just don't play for the audience, I play for myself as well. The amp I use affects the way I play. There is a feel and a touch dynamic that I find missing in solid state amps. Extra weight? The heaviest tube amp I own weighs 42 lbs. Some of my camera bags can weigh that much and I haul them around all the time. What cost? Tube replacement? Hassle? Lugging a 4x12 cab was a hassle, lugging a 100 watt Twin was a hassle too. The wheels made it a little easier, my bandmaster with the huge 2x12 cab was a hassle too. Humping 35-45 lb combos is nothing and I'll be 60 years old this year.

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:58 pm
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I won't get dragged into a debate. My point is the people who make a good valid argument for modeling amps are not all going around saying they are "the same as the real thing". I see that once in a while, but not often. Most are simply saying their audience generally won't know the difference, and some of us don't mind giving up some a little "a feel and touch dynamic" to get a whole lot of features in a single package. Tube amps are the only correct choice for some people. SS for others. I enjoy my modeling amp fully, and I am not some 'kid' who doesn't know any better. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:08 pm
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63supro wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
The stuff starts when someone with a modeling amp tries to convince old tube guys that they sound the same as the real thing
The statement I see more often is "99% of your audience won't know the difference". IMO, if you hid my Mustang III behind a vintage amp, with a vintage sound dialed in, playing with a full band, nobody in my audience would question it. So lets just say 10 out of 8000 people in your audience can hear the difference. Is it worth the extra cost/weight/hassle to please 10 people? The answer is YES (for some people, just not for me). :mrgreen:


I just don't play for the audience, I play for myself as well. The amp I use affects the way I play. There is a feel and a touch dynamic that I find missing in solid state amps. Extra weight? The heaviest tube amp I own weighs 42 lbs. Some of my camera bags can weigh that much and I haul them around all the time. What cost? Tube replacement? Hassle? Lugging a 4x12 cab was a hassle, lugging a 100 watt Twin was a hassle too. The wheels made it a little easier, my bandmaster with the huge 2x12 cab was a hassle too. Humping 35-45 lb combos is nothing and I'll be 60 years old this year.

I agree with you both. I play for the audience and for my own enjoyment as well (certainly not for the money). Nearly 100% of the audience can't tell in a 'band' environment. I'm not sure my bandmates could either. I can (or at least believe I can...matters not which) so it helps/satisfies me. I'm using a 5E3 head, so I'm not burdened with a head that's any heavier than a ss one. If I went somewhere that had a decent ss modeler for its backline, I'd use it and be happy I didn't have to lug equipment, but if I take my own, I take what I like....TUBES

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:16 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I won't get dragged into a debate. My point is the people who make a good valid argument for modeling amps are not all going around saying they are "the same as the real thing". I see that once in a while, but not often. Most are simply saying their audience generally won't know the difference, and some of us don't mind giving up some a little "a feel and touch dynamic" to get a whole lot of features in a single package. Tube amps are the only correct choice for some people. SS for others. I enjoy my modeling amp fully, and I am not some 'kid' who doesn't know any better. :wink:


Never said you don't know any better and I'm glad you enjoy your modeling amp. As far as your audience not knowing, the test I use is how many people are still there for the second or third set. I usually hang around at a local bar and listen to the local bands if I'm not playing anywhere. Some bands can keep their audience most of the night, some lose them after the first set. The reasons vary, but a lot of times sound quality is a problem. Not just too loud, but the quality of the sound. Don't underestimate you audience, they hear better than you think.

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:25 pm
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I haven't played a bar gig in over a decade. I play concerts only with my band, and I also play in pit orchestras (broadway musicals, but not on broadway). As far as I can tell I haven't scared anyone off with my amps "poor quality of sound".

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:33 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I haven't played a bar gig in over a decade. I play concerts only with my band, and I also play in pit orchestras (broadway musicals, but not on broadway). As far as I can tell I haven't scared anyone off with my amps "poor quality of sound".


Here we go........................

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Post subject: Re: Modeling or non modeling for gigging.
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:42 pm
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Brian Krashpad wrote:
63supro wrote:
Brian, you still have a Sovtek? MIG 50 by any chance? Those things were really sweet. I had a Sunn Scepter with the 4x12 cab back in my younger glory days.


Yes, I do! In my main punk rock band it is my gigging amp.

Image

Sovtek actually had two somewhat different MiG 50 models. The regular MiG 50 was a standard-size head (roughly as big as most Marshall heads) with no master volume. I have the other one, the MiG 50H, which was marketed as and more commonly called the "Tube Midget." It was in a smaller sized head, and had a master volume.

Here's my rig for my main band, set up for practice in the garage at Casa Krashpad:

Image

My Sunn head is a 200S, from sometime pre-'69, technically a bass amp, but like the early Fender Bassman, sounds great for guitar.

Image

Here it is with a DIY 2x12 cab, at a gig with a former side band:

Image



Thanks for the photos Brian. That's a flashback for me. Was that a Kustom tuck roll cab under the bench too? Man sometimes I wish I hung onto some of the old stuff I had.

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