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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:54 pm
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shred6 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Guitarists are funny. Throw a set of "2"s in a bass amp and turn it up to 5. You'll see exactly how much it matters and it has nothing to do with being "cranked". It really won't matter how good your pre amp tube is at that point...


Guitar players WILL probably be talking about guitar amps. And in that realm, the preamp always matters. Always.

If I put a Matsuhhita in my Ampeg V1, whether cranked or not, there will be a noticeable brightness. If I put a Sylvania or GE, it will be noticeably darker. Clean, cranked, distorted, power distorted, whatever the case may be, that will ALWAYS be the case.

I'm not saying that won't be the case with different power tubes as well. The two sections work together to create the sound of the amp. But I can't agree with a statement of "It won't matter what's in your preamp". It always matters what's in your preamp.

I'm not as familiar with Bass amps. I do have an Alembic F-1X preamp. But I've yet to run it through a power amp and speakers. It's used mainly as a direct recording amp. Obviously, there's only one way I can change the dynamic of that setup. And as sure as the Sun rises, it will change if I swap that preamp tube with a brighter one (currently using a Telefunken).



What I mean is. If you're distorting your amp to the point where it sounds like your amp is crapping itself in the power stage. It won't matter how good your tone is going into it. Your pre amp signal is sent to your power stage and boosted. If it's boosted to the point of sounding like sh&t then it doesn't matter how good it sounds going it. You're going to get sh&t coming out. Now on a guitar amp that might not be something that happens unless you "crank it". However, you better have some high rated 6L6s in your power stage of your bass amp or you will hit that point at about 5. Not when "cranked". So it matters VERY much what power tubes you use. Otherwise your amp will be ungiggable. You will still have all 100 watts, but you won't be able to use it at any practical volume without it sounding like sh&t.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:16 pm
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63supro wrote:
Lightnin, Don't take it personally buddy. Shimmy means well, but when he likes something, seems like he"ll defend it to the last breath. He's a good guy and very knowledgeable, but like most of us, really opinionated. :wink:
I still think GT's are nothing more than hype, just like gold pin and cryogenic tubes. I play what I like and sounds good to me. First and foremost it must be reliable. For me, GT's fell flat on that one. If you bias GT's cold, they'll last forever, when I pushed mine a little warmer they failed, and not just on one occurrence. If your pockets are deep enough, NOS is pretty much the way to go. Those old tubes were military spec and had to be reliable under extreme conditions. The military no longer uses them at least to my knowledge, so now they're not as reliable. My last build had mil spec 1% tolerance resistors. I check every component before I install it and they were pretty much dead nuts every time or at least well within the 1% tolerance.
IMO, good parts make good tone. In my recent build, I used F&T electrolytic caps, Mallory coupling caps, Dale and Ohmite resistors, Classic Tone Trannies made in the U.S. and I have a set of JJ's in it now and the tone is awesome. You look at high production amps now and they're full of imported, cheap components and ribbon connectors. Think that crap helps your tone? :wink:


I'm not taking it personally... I fully respect and support Shimmi's right to be Misinformed and Wrong !! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

+1 about the 5-band Mil-spec CCs.

I used these when restoring my '67 Deluxe and every one of them was 'dead-on-balls'. I also used mostly F&Ts, but went with Jupiters and Sozos where necessary. The Tone is amazing !

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:51 pm
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63supro wrote:
Those old tubes were military spec and had to be reliable under extreme conditions. The military no longer uses them at least to my knowledge, so now they're not as reliable.

I believe the military still uses vacuum tubes for some equipment. From what I know, they stopped, and then discovered that the Russians had varieties of weapons systems with vacuum tube systems as backup for chips, because valves resist EMPs much better. So to keep up, our guys started reviving and maintaining some of the old equipment for "worst case" scenarios.


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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:40 pm
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Basically, what it boils down to is that GT sources several brands of tubes, such as JJ, EH, Sovtek, Shuguang, etc. For example, JJ makes tubes for GT. So, how can you say that JJ tubes are great, yet with a GT label on them, they suddenly become crap? That is pure nonsense. Same with EH, great tubes, but put a GT label on them and it ruins them? That's laughable. If you don't like the sound of Sovtek tubes (or any particular brand), that's understandable, but not all GT tubes are Sovtek, so it makes no sense to lump them all together especially if you only ever tried one set, or just one particular type, and based your opinion on that.

I can't count how many threads that I've read about how someone states that the stock GT tubes sound awful, then they are changed to another type and then biased correctly, then sound great. Not many have tried correctly biasing the stock tubes before changing them. There have been a few that have tried setting the bias before changing tubes, and found the sound to be much better. There are those that switch the GT Sovteks for JJ and note a much improved sound, and wrongly conclude that it must be GT at fault. :roll: So it stands to reason that If they had swapped the GT Sovteks for JJ made GTs, they would have had a similar experience with improved sound. So, are GTs crap, or is there a lack of understanding about what is really going on. Yes, the latter of course.

And grading tubes for you is hype? Adding value with a selection and grading service is hype? Giving you a six month guarantee, while everyone else gives half of that or less is hype? Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I feel it's best to have an informed opinion, and not base that opinion on misinformation and lack of knowledge. People love to dis' what they don't understand. :wink:

If you pay more than you should for GTs, that is your own fault for not knowing that you can buy them for not much more than any other brand.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:14 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
And grading tubes for you is hype? Adding value with a selection and grading service is hype?


Exactly what I was getting at. If one's a guitarist it may not be worth as much to some. (I guess?) However, as a bassist it is honestly worth every penny and more. Moreover, if I was a guitarist who played through more robust amps then I'd want to make sure I could drive the amp when I wanted. (without pedals) The amount of money I pay per tube is more than worth it to know I'm getting useable tubes and not tubes I'm going to be passing on to a lucky guitarist I know.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:48 am
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No grading tubes isn't hype. I never said that. GT touts itself as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I used to get matched pairs and quads long before I ever heard of Groove Tubes and didn't pay a premium for them. What's bad is people thinking that if they put the same grade tube in, they don't need to check the bias. We've had this discussion before and I'm not going to rehash the argument. I buy JJ's in matched quads, it's no big deal. You can get EH, Mullard, Tung-Sol you name it, Just about every company that distributes vacuum tubes sells matched tubes and balanced phase inverters.
The "Perfect Pair" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. See how perfect they are a month or two later. Some people deliberately run slightly mismatched power tubes to get a certain sound. Too much work for me, but it's done.
Here's the deal right here.
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Groove-Tubes

Get the tubes you want and pay what you like, it's not worth the arguing.

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