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Post subject: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:09 pm
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I had installed a brand new, JJ Preamp tube on my 1996 Fender Roc-Pro 700 a few weeks ago and at first, it sounded great. Last night at band practice , I noticed that there was a decrease in volume so when I got home, I took the JJ out and put back in the original Fender 12AX7/ECC83 that was built with the amp way back in 1996 and you know what ? Not only did I get my increase in power back , but the tone was actually better as well. Sure I'll probably end up paying a arm and a leg in the future for a replacement Fender tube for this amp, but to me, it's worth it. That's what I get for buying on E-Bay.


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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:38 pm
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jeffo46 wrote:
I had installed a brand new, JJ Preamp tube on my 1996 Fender Roc-Pro 700 a few weeks ago and at first, it sounded great. Last night at band practice , I noticed that there was a decrease in volume so when I got home, I took the JJ out and put back in the original Fender 12AX7/ECC83 that was built with the amp way back in 1996 and you know what ? Not only did I get my increase in power back , but the tone was actually better as well. Sure I'll probably end up paying a arm and a leg in the future for a replacement Fender tube for this amp, but to me, it's worth it. That's what I get for buying on E-Bay.


I'm glad you're pleased with the swap. But, Fender Tubes vary through the years. There have been several mfgrs./suppliers. I believe that Groove Tubes is the current one.

NOS vintage tubes are nice, but spendy. I'd go with them on a Vintage Amp, but don't believe they make much difference (especially on a cost-benefit basis) for the newer amps (>'90).

And, be mindful that there is great variance between tubes from the same manufacturer, even with identical date codes. Such is the nature of vacuum tubes.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:11 pm
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I never buy Fender Groove Tubes, especially pre-amp tubes. I have had many tube rattles with them and none I can remember with other brands (that may just be a twist of fate, but I'm sticking with it until something changes.)

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:55 pm
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jeffo46 wrote:
...Sure I'll probably end up paying a arm and a leg in the future for a replacement Fender tube for this amp, but to me, it's worth it....


GT are my preferred tubes also. 8)

If you are careful where you buy, GTs are just about on par with any other tubes as far as price. Hold GC, and others, to any price matching guarantee and you'll save a ton on their "list" prices. AES, to name just one vendor, has very good prices on GT. :idea:

The real "secret" to GT tubes is learning the various suffixes, and recognizing the tube insides to be able to choose the ones that best suit your needs/wants. GT uses tubes from just about all of the major manufacturers, and their testing and selection process is second to none. :D

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:37 pm
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I've always had good results with Groove Tubes as well.

Interesting issue with that amp... If it were mine, I would have it looked at by a decent amp tech. Something's not right... you got the new tube to replace the old Fender tube that was in there... the prob went away and the amp was back to normal...
Same prob re-surfaces... and you swap out the new tube and replace with the old one... the amp's acting normal again... :?

Strange...
Perhaps it's a current issue... keeps varying... perhaps the tube's socket needs to be replaced... maybe a wiring issue... maybe the caps are going south... could be a number of things. The amp may take a total crap on you when you least expect it... IMO, it's best to have it looked at.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:19 am
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IIRC, the advise given before was that the tube in question was fine....and it still is. But, if someone is determined to do it anyway......

This is all so hard to follow across three, no make that four, or maybe more threads about the same amp, same tube swapping. :roll:

Enough with starting a new thread about the same topic, over and over. Keep the info in the same thread, and maybe someone can help........oh, nevermind, I give up! :?

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:24 am
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I use Electro Harmonix. I had no problem with JJ's

You may have a bad tube from GT too .

It's happened to me.


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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:44 am
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Strat-Slinger wrote:
I've always had good results with Groove Tubes as well.

Interesting issue with that amp... If it were mine, I would have it looked at by a decent amp tech. Something's not right... you got the new tube to replace the old Fender tube that was in there... the prob went away and the amp was back to normal...
Same prob re-surfaces... and you swap out the new tube and replace with the old one... the amp's acting normal again... :?

Strange...
Perhaps it's a current issue... keeps varying... perhaps the tube's socket needs to be replaced... maybe a wiring issue... maybe the caps are going south... could be a number of things. The amp may take a total crap on you when you least expect it... IMO, it's best to have it looked at.


Strat Slinger , I'm definitely sure there is nothing wrong with the amp at all. I believe I was just sold a faulty tube to be honest with you. It happens you know.


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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:36 am
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Almost a decade ago when I was running my old 74 Bassman 100 a lady I met gave me a giant box of 6L6s that her husband had sitting in a basement. All loose and rattling around. Some were blown, some were bad, and some were dependable and sounded great and used for a long time. All different makes. I still have some of them. Before getting this box I used GT most often. However, when helping a guitarist in my old band pick out a tube amp and now that I've moved to the two modern Fender Bass tube heads I've gone to using GTs exclusively. I've yet to get a bad tube from GT. Still, there's nothing really wrong with other brands. Just like all industries there are MFGs that are more dependable than others, and like all MFGs. No line is perfect. Bad apples are bound to slip through. I've found GT to be very dependable and consistent. I don't mind paying a little extra for that.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:30 am
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Most of the posts here about a particular tube(s) are simply anecdotal.

I hate to rain on this Groove Tube Parade, but Groove Tubes (now owned by Fender), is not a tube manufacturer. Neither is Ruby Tubes and a host of other companies. They are Private Brand distributors, nothing more.

All of these companies simply re-label tubes from the companies who actually build tubes, such as New Sensor (who make Electro- Harmonix, Sovtek, Svetlana, and re-issues of Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes), JJ Electronic, Shuguang, SED and a few other factories. They do not sub-contract these companies to manufacture tubes of their own design, they simply buy the tubes these manufacturers are already making under bulk or wholesale pricing.

Other than buying tubes in bulk and re-packaging them for sale under their own name, Groove Tubes (and the others) have no input into the manufacture of these tubes, they are not made to spec or anything.

Groove Tubes does not test individual tubes either, they may randomly sample a handful of tubes from the bulk batch they are buying (think sampling a half dozen tubes from a few container-sized lots), but that's all.

And just because today a Groove Tubes 6V6GT (6V6R in GT parlance) is made by New Sensor (Electro-Harmonix), they may just as well be made by another manufacturer tomorrow, if New Sensor raises prices, suffers a glitch, or a competitor strikes a better deal.

Groove Tubes are no better than other tubes simply because they are other tubes, yet GTs are often priced higher than the same tube sold under it's own name. If you want to pay more for the same tube, go right ahead.

Most of the tubes Groove Tubes sells can be cross-referenced back to their true manufacturer and Brand Name. Below is a partial list of who actually makes the tubes Groove Tubes sells:

Groove Tubes Part Number / Original Part Number

GT-6L6B / Sovtek 5881WXT
GT-6L6S / JJ 6L6GC
GT-E34LS / JJ E34L
GT-EL34R / Electro-Harmonix EL34
GT-EL84R / Sovtek EL84
GT-EL84S / JJ EL84
GT-6V6R / Electro Harmonix 6V6GT
GT-6V6S / JJ 6V6S
GT-12AX7C / Shuguang 12AX7-A
GT-12AX7R / Sovtek 12AX7-WA
GT-12AX7R2 / Sovtek 12AX7-LPS Vacuum Tube
GT-12AX7R3 / Electro-Harmonix 12AX7-EH
GT-ECC83S / JJ ECC83-S
GT-12AT7 / Shuguang 12AT7
GT-12AY7 / Electro-Harmonix 12AY7

So you can see that Groove Tubes is buying from virtually all exisiting manufacturers. If you see these tubes sold for a better price under their own brand name, jump on them and save a few bucks... it's the exact same tube !!

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:38 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
Most of the posts here about a particular tube(s) are simply anecdotal.

I hate to rain on this Groove Tube Parade, but Groove Tubes (now owned by Fender), is not a tube manufacturer. Neither is Ruby Tubes and a host of other companies. They are Private Brand distributors, nothing more.

All of these companies simply re-label tubes from the companies who actually build tubes, such as New Sensor (who make Electro- Harmonix, Sovtek, Svetlana, and re-issues of Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes), JJ Electronic, Shuguang, SED and a few other factories. They do not sub-contract these companies to manufacture tubes of their own design, they simply buy the tubes these manufacturers are already making under bulk or wholesale pricing.

Other than buying tubes in bulk and re-packaging them for sale under their own name, Groove Tubes (and the others) have no input into the manufacture of these tubes, they are not made to spec or anything.

Groove Tubes does not test individual tubes either, they may randomly sample a handful of tubes from the bulk batch they are buying (think sampling a half dozen tubes from a few container-sized lots), but that's all.

And just because today a Groove Tubes 6V6GT (6V6R in GT parlance) is made by New Sensor (Electro-Harmonix), they may just as well be made by another manufacturer tomorrow, if New Sensor raises prices, suffers a glitch, or a competitor strikes a better deal.

Groove Tubes are no better than other tubes simply because they are other tubes, yet GTs are often priced higher than the same tube sold under it's own name. If you want to pay more for the same tube, go right ahead.

Most of the tubes Groove Tubes sells can be cross-referenced back to their true manufacturer and Brand Name. Below is a partial list of who actually makes the tubes Groove Tubes sells:

Groove Tubes Part Number / Original Part Number

GT-6L6B / Sovtek 5881WXT
GT-6L6S / JJ 6L6GC
GT-E34LS / JJ E34L
GT-EL34R / Electro-Harmonix EL34
GT-EL84R / Sovtek EL84
GT-EL84S / JJ EL84
GT-6V6R / Electro Harmonix 6V6GT
GT-6V6S / JJ 6V6S
GT-12AX7C / Shuguang 12AX7-A
GT-12AX7R / Sovtek 12AX7-WA
GT-12AX7R2 / Sovtek 12AX7-LPS Vacuum Tube
GT-12AX7R3 / Electro-Harmonix 12AX7-EH
GT-ECC83S / JJ ECC83-S
GT-12AT7 / Shuguang 12AT7
GT-12AY7 / Electro-Harmonix 12AY7

So you can see that Groove Tubes is buying from virtually all exisiting manufacturers. If you see these tubes sold for a better price under their own brand name, jump on them and save a few bucks... it's the exact same tube !!

cheers!


Correct. However, if you're depending on your tubes for gigs the extra QC practices are worth a couple of bucks. To me, at least.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:00 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Correct. However, if you're depending on your tubes for gigs the extra QC practices are worth a couple of bucks. To me, at least.


One of the many things that is great about America is that you can buy your tubes from anyone you like... for any reason you like.

But, other than marketing hype, there is absolutely no evidence that Groove Tubes, Ruby Tubes or the others does any kind of testing or QA on an on-going basis.

They do not have their own testing facility, nor do they contract w/ independent testing labs.

They may well have had a particular model tube tested, or randomly tested a sampling from a bulk order, but that's all.

They certainly do not test every tube they sell. If they did, these tubes would be priced so high that Vintage Mullards, RCAs and Bugleboys prices would pale in comparison.

I'm not necessarily dissing GTs, or telling anyone what tubes to buy or where. But, knowledge is power and at least those reading this thread will go out better prepared than they were before and make informed buying decisions.

There seem to be as many detractors of Groove Tube tubes as there are supporters out there.

But, if you take comfort in buying from Groove Tubes, for whatever reason, then by all means continue to do so. :D

cheers!

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Last edited by Lightnin MN on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:02 am
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Lightnin MN, I hate to rain on your anti GT parade, but you (and in part thetubestore) are FOS. While it is true that GT doesn't manufacture tubes, there is much more to it than "simply relabeling". GT does indeed test each and every tube, and rejects the ones that do not pass, with a rejection rate of over 50%. The output tubes are graded by current draw, and are very consistently graded, which is not possible without testing each every tube. You aren't going to get the "exact same tube" unless you can test and grade them yourself. Those of us that have used hundreds of tubes, rather than just a hand-full, can testify as to what GT really does. :wink:

Also, New Sensor (an American company) doesn't manufacture tubes either, they are a distributor of tubes manufactured by the Reflector factory (aka Xpo-pul) in Russia.

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:25 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Lightnin MN, I hate to rain on your anti GT parade, but you (and in part thetubestore) are FOS. While it is true that GT doesn't manufacture tubes, there is much more to it than "simply relabeling". GT does indeed test each and every tube, and rejects the ones that do not pass, with a rejection rate of over 50%. The output tubes are graded by current draw, and are very consistently graded, which is not possible without testing each every tube. You aren't going to get the "exact same tube" unless you can test and grade them yourself. Those of us that have used hundreds of tubes, rather than just a hand-full, can testify as to what GT really does. :wink:

Also, New Sensor (an American company) doesn't manufacture tubes either, they are a distributor of tubes manufactured by the Reflector factory (aka Xpo-pul) in Russia.


Well, I'm not into Flame Wars (arguing on the Net simply wastes Bandwidth) so usually I'd let it slide.

But, now you're throwing around acronyms like 'FOS'. :x

Lately, in a series of threads, from a variety of forums, you seem to be singly opposing/contradicting whatever I post. :shock:

What's up with that..?? :(

First, I am not anti-Groove Tubes, nor do I think my post(s) indicate that. It's your own assumption.

Next, back up your statement. Show me any evidence, other than Groove Tubes marketing hype, that Groove Tubes goes beyond simply repackaging and distributing tubes manufactured by others on a consistent basis.

I'm not at all averse to learning something new or admitting it when I am wrong. :oops:

But, it's gonna take waay more than just Flames to do so. :lol:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: I Think I'll Be Using Only Fender Tubes From Now On.
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:46 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Correct. However, if you're depending on your tubes for gigs the extra QC practices are worth a couple of bucks. To me, at least.


One of the many things that is great about America is that you can buy your tubes from anyone you like... for any reason you like.

But, other than marketing hype, there is absolutely no evidence that Groove Tubes, Ruby Tubes or the others does any kind of testing or QA on an on-going basis.

They do not have their own testing facility, nor do they contract w/ independent testing labs.

They may well have had a particular model tube tested, or randomly tested a sampling from a bulk order, but that's all.

They certainly do not test every tube they sell. If they did, these tubes would be priced so high that Vintage Mullards, RCAs and Bugleboys prices would pale in comparison.

I'm not necessarily dissing GTs, or telling anyone what tubes to buy or where. But, knowledge is power and at least those reading this thread will go out better prepared than they were before and make informed buying decisions.

There seem to be as many detractors of Groove Tube tubes as there are supporters out there.

But, if you take comfort in buying from Groove Tubes, for whatever reason, then by all means continue to do so. :D

cheers!



Generally, what is done is called an AQL. Meaning that a distributor like GT receives a lot from a contract MFG like Sovtek for example and they do a functional test on a specified sampling of a lot. (probably 10%) The fact that GT does this sampling on the materials they receive from their contract manufacturers does in fact ensure that suppliers adhere to their Certificate of Conformance. So, yes. This and my actual knowledge of how contract manufacturing and quality systems works does actually give me a little peace of mind. (my day job) Worth the upcharge for that insurance. If not going the extra step to ensure that your gear performs well isn't worth it to you then have at it. :D

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