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Post subject: Harmonicas
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:41 am
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I've noodled around with playing harmonica for years. I'm doing it a little more recently and need to fill in some of my equipment, and I could use some advice from more experienced players.
Harmonicas: I have all of the major keys. They are mostly Hohner Blues Harps with a couple of other models. I need to get all the flat keys. Anyone ever use the Seydel Blues Session Steel? Here's a link: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/folk-tra ... ductDetail
Right now I'm working on "When The Levee Breaks", and that has a pretty bass heavy tone.
Microphones: What would be a good mic that won't break the bank? I've been playing into the vocal mic's and I'm hoping I can get a better tone by using a harmonica specific mic.
Amp: What are some amp settings that would help? Reverb, delay? Any pedals or preamps that are useful? Is is possible I could turn a Fender G-Dec 30 into a harmonica amp? I have one that I rarely use, so I just wondered.
Thanks for any help.

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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:50 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
Microphones: What would be a good mic that won't break the bank? I've been playing into the vocal mic's and I'm hoping I can get a better tone by using a harmonica specific mic.

You probably won't get a better tone than a generic mic, but a harmonica mic will generally have a physically wider field, so it captures both the high and low tones when you hold a harmonica close to it, but won't capture sound from other directions.
Otherwise, cupping your hand and piping the signal into a Shure-57 works well too.

As for needing a harp for each key, you can use crossharp playing to reduce that quite substantially:
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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:02 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Drew365 wrote:
Microphones: What would be a good mic that won't break the bank? I've been playing into the vocal mic's and I'm hoping I can get a better tone by using a harmonica specific mic.

You probably won't get a better tone than a generic mic, but a harmonica mic will generally have a physically wider field, so it captures both the high and low tones when you hold a harmonica close to it, but won't capture sound from other directions.
Otherwise, cupping your hand and piping the signal into a Shure-57 works well too.

As for needing a harp for each key, you can use crossharp playing to reduce that quite substantially:
Image

Thanks for that chart, that will be helpful. I'll be doing the vocals also. So I'm figuring a separate harmonica mic with different amp settings will make my playing sound a bit better. I think the harmonica will need a bit more reverb at the very least.

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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:38 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
I'll be doing the vocals also. So I'm figuring a separate harmonica mic with different amp settings will make my playing sound a bit better. I think the harmonica will need a bit more reverb at the very least.

Yeah, it helps to have different settings - if nothing else, I tend to tone down the treble a bit on the harp, so it won't sound so shrill.

As for reverb, I like to disable it altogether for the harmonica, and use a phase 90 instead to add some "life", but that's surely an individual preference!


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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:20 pm
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The Shure 520DX commonly called "The Green Bullet" is one of the most commonly used harp mics. It comes wired with a phone plug for a high impedance guitar amp input, 20 foot cable, and built in volume control. Really no other harp mic does the Little Walter sound but the Green Bullet...but of course it has to be in the hands of Little Walter. A Green Bullet, especially used, is affordable but you have to get creative if you want to put on a stand because the volume control built into the 520DX is installed where the original thread for the mic stand was located on the old original ones. Another option is to find a used one already modded, or buy one of the old desk mounted ones with the stand thread still there. The same basic microphone was extensively used in two-way radio communication for many decades. If you find one of those old communications models you'll need to rewire it as most of those were wired Low Impedance screwed onto a push-to-talk desk stand. I got my old Green Bullet at an auction for $15 attached to a 60 year old two-way radio that must have weighed 150 lbs. I took the mic and left the radio. Removed the mic from the desk stand and rewired it.

The SM57 mentioned will work, but it won't sound as gritty as the Green Bullet and when you cup an SM57 it can feed back worse than the omni directional Green Bullet does. The Green Bullet has more than a little grit in the tone and it is very honky which is appealing for blues work when paired with a tube amp. But like I said the lack of a stand mount is problematic for some. Shure has some recommendations and suggestions for stand mounting the Green Bullet here: http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/930

I'd look used for an older USA made Green Bullet if you can find one. I'm not sure they are still made in the USA.

Other harp mics worth considering are the Shure PE585 which was used extensively by harpist James Cotton live. They have been discontinued for decades. They were a high impedance mic that matched up nicely to a tube guitar amp's input and will fit the same stand adapter as a SM58 or SM57. They are a big full sized microphone with a ball on them like a SM58. They sound pretty honky when cupped. Actually any of the mid 60's to late 70's Shure high impedance vocal mics can be used with about the same result as the PE585, most of these were called Unidyne series mics.

Before the Green Bullet I enjoyed another often used harp mic, the vintage Electro Voice 630. The EV 630 is big heavy and cumbersome because of the integrated switch/stand mount with the entire thing made out of machined chromed steel but it sounds close to a Green Bullet and can be stand mounted. You'll have to look used for one as they've been out of production for 40 to 45 years at least. They are about indestructible but they usually have an Ampethol connector, not XLR. They are dual impedance and omni-directional. It was a good harp mic but really heavy if you are going to handhold it. Both the Green Bullet and the EV 630 can double as vocal mics but both are omni-directional so they will feed back at high volume.

Modern harpists have been using Shaker mics more and more. They are cleaner sounding and smaller than a Green Bullet. The basic Shaker mics are relatively tiny and cheap and are only for handheld use and aren't much good for vocals at all. The Shaker Mad Dog is probably their best harp mic and that one costs more than a new Green Bullet. There are other cheaper Shaker mics though. They are called Shaker mics because they look like a tiny little salt shaker.

If you are looking for vintage bluesy harp tones the Green Bullet or the EV630 are old faves but for a cleaner tone that still sounds lively the Shaker line has been coming on strong. All three work great into a tube guitar amp or a Pignose. For a while I was using a Supro 30 watt tube bass amp for harp and it was AMAZING. Those are hard to find these days though. Probably the best harp amp I ever used on a regular basis but it was heavy. Second best and much lighter was a Pignose. In both case you mic them with a SM57 to feed the PA. Harp heaven either way! The Pignose isn't as loud but the inherent honkiness of the little amp suits a harp well.

I'm more of a Blues Harp and Marine Band guy so I don't have any experience with those Seydel harps at all. Hohner only.


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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:49 am
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Thanks Brother Dave, your post gave a lot of insight, as usual. The Shaker Mad Dog is on a short list I made up yesterday. I'll look into the Pignose amps. I've heard of them, but haven't paid much attention to them before. I guess getting serious about harmonica opens up a whole new gear world. Up to now I've just been pulling one out of my pocket and doing some fills and short solos, sticking it back in my pocket and continuing with guitar. That works, but doesn't sound that great.

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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:24 am
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I would try the G-Dec before going out and buying a new amp. My latest harmonica is the Hohner "Little Lady":

Image

Tiny but totally functional. :)

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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:40 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Tiny but totally functional. :)


So is this, but it's still a novelty toy, and not truly useful:

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Post subject: Re: Harmonicas
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:55 am
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I personal like and play Lee Oskar's Harmonicas
Image
but now I see this, kind of interesting
Image
I also like a clean sound so I use an array of mics when I play from Senn. 421 to SM 58's I like to here the hand effects that come out when not holding the mic so close to the Harp, Kind of like recording an acoustic group with one mic in the middle, very old school. I am not looking to sound like Little Walter or the Chicago Blues harmonica sound. I have been told that I don't sound like anyone else out there, when asked who do I get my sound or influence from, my answer is when I started in 1971 I only listened to me and took tips from the old winos who I would bring bottles to and they would sing and dance, and I would play, and they would say try to get a ------------ type of sound and I would, and then they would say " that's it like my daddy would do back in Mississippi when I was young. so I owe my skills to the old folk I used to know
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