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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:59 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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IF I were ever to sell it (which I'm not ) It would be offered with the original bill of sale, hang tags and receipt of work done on it at the main shop in Manchester where the luthier did the work of refinishing the whole neck and putting a fresh decal on

The only difference between mine and a similar guitar which has had a re fret , is the whole neck was sanded including the crappy amber laquer on the back of the neck and the headstock (which , seen in the flesh was dissapointing to say the least ) and a new Fender logo applied
Actually if you shop around, you will find many 1968-9 reissues with identical logos exactly the same as mine
Here is an actual genuine 1968 Strat

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Another genuine 1968 strat

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A Fender Richie Blackmore 1968 reissue

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Mr James Hendrix's 1968 guitar

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So, if anything, mine is actually closer to what an actual 1968 would have looked like (maple neck , no skunk stripe, maple cap , 4 bolt neck truss rod adjustment at the heel)

(Incidentally, the large Fender-small stratocaster logoed 1968, was made for a very short time, 1996-97) and if it were left original would be innacurate for the exact date , two string trees for instance where there should have been just one as on the originals and vintage tuners on mine , instead of the fender staggered ones that technically should be there

The nearest to an actual '68 is the current CIJ model with period correct DECAL , tuners and just the one string tree

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:14 pm
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ted j wrote:
IF I were ever to sell it (which I'm not ) It would be offered with the original bill of sale, hang tags and receipt of work done on it at the main shop in Manchester where the luthier did the work of refinishing the whole neck and putting a fresh decal on

And you can guarantee the same of your estate, or a future owner who doesn't know the background or your promises, how, exactly?

Sooner or later it's going to be sold as something it isn't.


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:36 pm
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Since Fender doesn't just hand out packs of waterslide decals, where did your 'luthier' get them in the first place? :? He must have used a fake.


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:55 pm
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Minnesotastrats wrote:
Since Fender doesn't just hand out packs of waterslide decals, where did your 'luthier' get them in the first place? :? He must have used a fake.


You'd be surprised at how many you can find on the internet. You could get them on E-Bay but they've put a stop to that and no longer will allow the sale of them due to copyright infringement.


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:20 pm
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I am assuming, because the shop was an authorised Fender dealer , they had an agreement with Fender about decals (This was after all in the 1990's), before every jack the lad could download one from the internet
That is the reason I took it there and as I said, the first time I got it back the logo was exactly as it was originally, but when the laquer started cracking and I took it back,the second time, the luthier explained he had no more identical logos and I could either wait till he got another sent , or have a transitional logo instead

I actually went up to the shop to see the logo before he applied it and checked it against a 1968 they had in stock for sale so was happy to have it put on, particularly as the headed notepaper the repair is on, had "Authorised Fender dealer" on it along with exactly what he had done to the guitar along with the serial number (which is both now on the original tag and the neckplate, which he put on when he set the guitar up )

Now I am not saying whether or not it is a genuine fender decal, as I really don't know but it IS a genuine Fender Strat with a replacement decal having been put on by an authorised fender dealer , with the paperwork to prove it

Bear in mind the UK is NOT the US and for Fender to supply decals and spare necks as they do in the US was not the case here 17 years ago

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:31 pm
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ted j wrote:
I am assuming, because the shop was an authorised Fender dealer , they had an agreement with Fender about decals (This was after all in the 1990's), before every jack the lad could download one from the internet
That is the reason I took it there and as I said, the first time I got it back the logo was exactly as it was originally, but when the laquer started cracking and I took it back,the second time, the luthier explained he had no more identical logos and I could either wait till he got another sent , or have a transitional logo instead

I actually went up to the shop to see the logo before he applied it and checked it against a 1968 they had in stock for sale so was happy to have it put on, particularly as the headed notepaper the repair is on, had "Authorised Fender dealer" on it along with exactly what he had done to the guitar along with the serial number (which is both now on the original tag and the neckplate, which he put on when he set the guitar up )

Now I am not saying whether or not it is a genuine fender decal, as I really don't know but it IS a genuine Fender Strat with a replacement decal having been put on by an authorised fender dealer , with the paperwork to prove it

Bear in mind the UK is NOT the US and for Fender to supply decals and spare necks as they do in the US was not the case here 17 years ago

I stand by my original statement. Email Fender and ask them if they have EVER allowed authorized shops to just have Fender waterslide logos just to have on hand just in case they might need one some day.


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:41 pm
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There are places to get them online but they're not authentic. Fender doesn't sell them. They don't authorize others to do so either and they do not supply them to anyone or any company for resale. As has been mentioned several times before, getting one from Fender requires a lot of hoop jumping and quite rightfully so. The ones you can find online are copies. Some are a little more realistic than others. All are copyright infringements. The other thing to note is that these companies get reported to the authorities from time to time. Buying online would leave a trail leading to you should they ever get investigated.

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:15 am
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OK
So I decide I want my neck refinished due to there being a scratch on the fretboard and take it to an AUTHORISED Fender dealer , their luthier (who was reccommended to me) and myself have a chat
I ask him if he can sand out the scratch , he says he will have to pull the frets and refret the neck , but yes, he can do it , but he might have to sand the whole neck, peghead face included , as he doesn't think he would be able to get anywhere near a match on the very dark amber tinted laquer that was used on the neck
I say to him "well the logo will be sanded off too won't it , I have paid over £400 for this guitar and don't want it to be a no name strat lookalike "

"No problem" he says we are an authorised Fender dealer, I'll put an identical logo back on "

(bear in mind I wasn't on the internet 17 years ago, so had no way of checking any of this to be correct and proper , apart from the shop actually WAS a fender dealership)

He did the job, but hadn't realised that nitricellulose laquer had been used on the neck as the original finish (it was a reissue remember ), when I took it back to him after the laquer cracking after some weeks

He apologised and said he would again sand the neck down completeley and get it back to me as original once again

About a week later, he rang me up, saying he didn't have the right logo , so would I be happy with a transitional logo . as another identical logo would be "A while coming". I said I'd come to the shop and take a look , which I did
They actually had in the shop , a genuine 1968 strat which had an identical lgo on to the one he was proposing to put on mine

I told him that would be fine (seeing as they were after all, a Fender dealership and he worked in house), particularly as he told me to bring in the letterheaded previous bill he had made out, and he would do me a fresh one with it dated and stamped to prove the work had been done professionally
The shop is long gone now and the luthier died a few years ago (his name was Ady Eddleston, one of the members on here knew of him)
I now realise that the logo is probably a fake and will destroy the guitar this afternoon , so as not to offend anyone on here

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:14 am
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That would obviously be the only honorable thing to do........ :roll:


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:55 am
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Lesson learned. Always contact Fender first before commissioning work be done that will require a decal. If Fender examines the neck and is satisfied it is a genuine Fender and truly will need a replacement decal they will provide one to the luthier of their choice.

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:49 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
There are places to get them online but they're not authentic. Fender doesn't sell them. They don't authorize others to do so either and they do not supply them to anyone or any company for resale. As has been mentioned several times before, getting one from Fender requires a lot of hoop jumping and quite rightfully so. The ones you can find online are copies. Some are a little more realistic than others. All are copyright infringements. The other thing to note is that these companies get reported to the authorities from time to time. Buying online would leave a trail leading to you should they ever get investigated.


Zackly.
After verification (all the hoops) we would approve the correct logo for whatever guitar. We would not approve an incorrect logo.
What many people may not realize about copyrights and trademarks is that the holder of those copyrights and trademarks must actively protect them and be able to show that they are doing so.. If they don't, they can lose said copyrights and/or trademarks. So while it may seem to be sometimes that the "big guys" are picking on the "little guys", it's actually required of them to pursue infringements and stop them.

What someone wants to adorn their personal guitar with doesn't offend me or bother me in any way......unless of course they are using questionably dishonest methods of doing so----buying logos online would be one of those methods.
and furthermore....to quote Alex Lifeson.....blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah.
Blah,
rob

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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:56 pm
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
What many people may not realize about copyrights and trademarks is that the holder of those copyrights and trademarks must actively protect them and be able to show that they are doing so.. If they don't, they can lose said copyrights and/or trademarks.


Half true. You absolutely have to protect trademarks from getting "diluted", but copyrights do not need any protection - they will continue to be valid[*] no matter whether you go AWOL for fifty years.
The decals are definitely trademarks, so they have to be vigorously defended.

[*]: At least in the US. A couple of civil law countries have "traditional rights" where if individuals have done something for 20+ years and no-one has objected before, they have the right to continue. It mostly concerns things like taking a path through someone's forest, fishing in someone's lake, or parking in front of someone's house. A new owner cannot suddenly deny long time traditional use just because it's not in writing. But because it's civil law, previous judgments in one case would not become law for another, so it would likely not be applied to copyrights. As far as I know, it never has, and the Berne convention likely trumps any "traditional rights".


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Post subject: Re: A Question concerning headstock decals.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:22 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
What many people may not realize about copyrights and trademarks is that the holder of those copyrights and trademarks must actively protect them and be able to show that they are doing so.. If they don't, they can lose said copyrights and/or trademarks.


Half true. You absolutely have to protect trademarks from getting "diluted", but copyrights do not need any protection - they will continue to be valid[*] no matter whether you go AWOL for fifty years.
The decals are definitely trademarks, so they have to be vigorously defended.

[*]: At least in the US. A couple of civil law countries have "traditional rights" where if individuals have done something for 20+ years and no-one has objected before, they have the right to continue. It mostly concerns things like taking a path through someone's forest, fishing in someone's lake, or parking in front of someone's house. A new owner cannot suddenly deny long time traditional use just because it's not in writing. But because it's civil law, previous judgments in one case would not become law for another, so it would likely not be applied to copyrights. As far as I know, it never has, and the Berne convention likely trumps any "traditional rights".


;O) I just like to give you the opportunity to prove that you're smarter than me (which you have again!!). Yes, you are correct...and as a songwriter, i shouldn't even mis-speak that. I don't have to actively protect my copyrights to retain them.....DERP!!

(you're welcome.......group hug? :lol: )

Have a good holiday arth1!

All the best,
rob

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