It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:29 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:27 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:33 am
Posts: 83
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA
Southpaw1969 wrote:
Nobody will ever want to hear whatever junk Beyonce, or Lady Gaga, or Miley Cyrus did in 10 years.


I agree with every sentiment you've shared, but I wonder about this one. I'm already seeing my kids, who are approaching 30, reminisce about bands like Hanson and Beyonce (who's been around a while) and other 90s pop successes.

I don't like it much, but the fact is that a person becomes the most attached to - and the most sentimental about- the music that they grew up with. Regardless of whether that music had any real value or not. The value is in it's power to unearth waves of nostalgia in the future.

Sucks.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:37 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 520
Location: Perth, Western Aus.
ButchA wrote:
I agree with so many comments on this topic.

True story: I have a friend who is also a Freemason like myself, and he is (now) a recently retired recording studio assistant from Nashville. .


Just watched the Foo Fighter short on the song they recorded in Nashville. The film was more about Nashville than FF. Your story sounds like the picture of Nashville all the country singers told. Even Dolly.

Nashville was a pulp hit factory before the production line was popularised by the whole industry. Just because some of it was good (if you like country) and big names went there to record, doesn't mean the studios and labels weren't all pumping out crap in far bigger numbers.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:49 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:10 pm
Posts: 5057
Location: The Capital Wasteland
SKcoppertele wrote:
As a young musician trying to make it as a rock artist, I'll just add my 2 cents. People at my school do like watching me play the "old stuff", only if they don't know how old it is. Its the opinion of a good portion of my generation that old=bad, new=good. We can keep rock alive, we just need to slap a new label on it. It cant be just three chords and some lalala. I dont care for dub step, at all. But I do think it would be cool to COMBINE it with rock and see what happened. I'll be willing to bet it would be popular. Rock isn't dead. Its on life support. Bring it back.


Yea dude, It's not that this generation doesn't like rock, because plenty do. It's just that you're choosing to limit yourself and judge others too harshly based on what music they listen to. Far too many young people like older $@!& for you to generalize your whole age group.

You're also fairly limited in your knowledge of newer music, so you feel isolated. You feel that if someone doesn't like the older stuff, they don't like it at all, or at least that's how it seems. Go find new records and new friends, because rock, not as you or any old guy knows it, is very alive and well.

_________________
1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:11 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 176
I know some guys who are signed to WB right now. They've put out their 1st album and have been touring over the past year as an opening act to major bands. It is a tough road. It's a trip to see a band with their foot that far in the door still having to work regular jobs when they get off tour. Whether it's giving music lessons or working construction for a while etc. in between tours, it kind of gives a glimpse of the state of where things are right now.

I saw some other friends go through it in the '90s and their record company pushed them HARD. And by that, I mean pushed it to the public hard. They worked their butts off for that band and it made them all a ton of money pretty fast and it's still going.

Metallica was criticized pretty hard when they went after Napster. They were called whiny complainers and greedy bastards, but looking back now you can see what their concern was. Gene Simmons was recently criticized for his remarks, but I watched the whole interview, and for the most part, he was right. American culture is just changing period.

When you look back at the successes of guys like Puff Daddy ( or P.Diddy, or Puffy Dizzle, etc.), Dr. Dre, Jay Z, the list goes on. They become who's pushing things out in that genre. And they're able to do so because they have American population on their side. They simply have a bigger audience. Record companies know it all to well, and they want their piece of the pie.

I've said it before that the biggest money makers here in Vegas are DJs. Some of them make $100,000-$300,000 "PER NIGHT" at the upscale clubs at the casinos. With their rotations, they're making 10-20 million per year. And they're able to do that because they have culture population on their side. It used to be that bands like Metallica were playing at the UNLV stadium. Now bands like that don't have the draw to pack it. They all play medium sized venues here and they're lucky if it sells out. But Jay Z and Beyoncé can sell out that stadium, and the EDC is the biggest concert (if you can call it that) in Vegas. It sells out a whole freaking Major Race Track at $700 a ticket/ weekend pass.

Where is Rock music going? Where will it end up? It'll end up wherever its audience and population takes it. For the time being, it's not a huge money maker compared to Rap and R&B. Our American culture has slowly morphed into what makes that a fact. The pendulum has swung and there's not a whole lot that can be done about it.

I don't think Shows like American Idol or The Voice are a big part of that. I find those shows hugely entertaining, but I never went out and bought Clay Aiken or Ruben Studdard's album. Kelly Clarkson had a contract at one of the Casinos for a while. From what I understand it was pretty successful. When you look at the career of Jennifer Hudson, I think the show really does some good things. She's a great singer, great actress, and her talents could have gone unknown had it not been for the show.

_________________
YMMV


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:21 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:11 am
Posts: 299
Drubbing wrote:
I'm sure the OP post could also have been written in the 1950s, and probably will be again 50 years from now.

For all the hand wringing and negativity about the talent shows, they prove one thing; there's plenty of people out there that can sing, some can even write songs. There always have been. Just goes to show, even with a nationwide network to force feed it to people, talent is overrated. It's everywhere and is no guarantee of succeeding.


Actually, the OP wouldn't have been written in the 1950's because the OP said nothing about talent or skill. The OP was about what the industry has become and the lack of any kind of production support, management, and opportunity to DEVELOP your skills and make a real living at music. In fact the music industry in the 50's and early 60's was a goldmine of opportunity and opened MANY doors for new talent.

That's not to say I don't also have serious concerns about whether or not new artists have the opportunity to actually develop their skills in the same way as we were able to in past decades. It may come as a surprise to many young people here, but there are quite a number of us that played full-time in cover bands or as session people in the 60's and 70's and actually made a living at it working 6 nights a week, 4 hours every night for YEARS. That's the kind of learning ground you had available to develop your skills. We didn't have any other job other than playing music. And when we were hired as session musicians we were paid well and got very professional direction and guidance from well-seasoned producers with a track record of making hit records, not some goofball that has a recording system set up in his garage and learned how to use ProTools. And when you did work in a recording session you played the music TOGETHER, overdubbing happened AFTER you captured the sound as a band. That meant you needed to have the skills to play and blend together in a studio to lay down the base track. But that wasn't too much of a problem because we were all full time musicians that worked every single day playing together and blending our sound, so it wasn't much more that what we were already used to doing.

THAT was the environment you learned your craft in. Do you really think that exists in any measure nowdays?

_________________
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Gibson 335
Gretsch G5420T
Fender American Strat
Martin GPCPA1 Plus Grand Performer
Fender Mustang IV v.2


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:53 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:45 pm
Posts: 852
Location: SoCal323
dunedindragon wrote:

Actually, the OP wouldn't have been written in the 1950's because the OP said nothing about talent or skill. The OP was about what the industry has become and the lack of any kind of production support, management, and opportunity to DEVELOP your skills and make a real living at music. In fact the music industry in the 50's and early 60's was a goldmine of opportunity and opened MANY doors for new talent.

What I gather from this paragraph is that we need to provide production support, management, and opportunities to develop a skill. I think It's already hard enough to make it in the music industry even when you're already loaded with talent and skill. In my opinion talent and skill are secondary to artistic impression. You can have all the skill and talent in the world but you have to be able to separate yourself from the other gazillion musicians who also have tons of skill and talent.
Let's face it, the recording industry is not what it used to be and it never will. It's sad to say but signing with a major record company is more about marketing than it is recording good music. It's about creating "brands" and cashing in. Which I might add, is not necessarily a bad thing. :wink:


That's not to say I don't also have serious concerns about whether or not new artists have the opportunity to actually develop their skills in the same way as we were able to in past decades. It may come as a surprise to many young people here, but there are quite a number of us that played full-time in cover bands or as session people in the 60's and 70's and actually made a living at it working 6 nights a week, 4 hours every night for YEARS. That's the kind of learning ground you had available to develop your skills. We didn't have any other job other than playing music. And when we were hired as session musicians we were paid well and got very professional direction and guidance from well-seasoned producers with a track record of making hit records, not some goofball that has a recording system set up in his garage and learned how to use ProTools. And when you did work in a recording session you played the music TOGETHER, overdubbing happened AFTER you captured the sound as a band. That meant you needed to have the skills to play and blend together in a studio to lay down the base track. But that wasn't too much of a problem because we were all full time musicians that worked every single day playing together and blending our sound, so it wasn't much more that what we were already used to doing.

THAT was the environment you learned your craft in. Do you really think that exists in any measure nowadays?
No, I do not. But mostly because of the competition between the masses upon masses of musicians.

Just my 2c.
Peace.

_________________
Its a lifestyle.....

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:52 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19026
Location: Illinois, USA
dunedindragon wrote:
I can't help but make some observations about what has been transpiring in the music environment over the last few years, and I can't help but say it really concerns me. I'm wondering if I'm just needlessly concerned and what other people's take on what's been happening and where things are going.

Obviously there have been some pretty big changes. Does this trend continue on until there are smaller and smaller markets for any one style?

What's your take? Where does this all end up?


Hi dunedindragon. Interesting thread, I like all of the posts so far, I edited the OP in the hope that my short response will fit.

Music isn't going anywhere. Classical styles are timeless, every medium to large city has a professional orchestra to represent their populations. Popular music is chock-full of talent. As an example, Roderigo y Gabriela has combined classical and popular styles to please a legion of fans in just a few years. Older bands will continue to perform and to mentor younger bands. The recording industry has changed and as with change in general, the good parts of the recording industry have gotten much better but the parts of that industry that were not good have become much much worse. Think gangsta-rap and in a darkly humorous dichotomy Justin Bieber from the same tainted well. Oh well, life goes on and music plays on, from the beginning until now and for ever after.

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:29 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 pm
Posts: 718
dunedindragon wrote:
The freedom of the internet and the availability of low cost (i.e. low quality) recording capability has provided many advantages to starting artists, but it doesn't come with anything of value. Even the most talentless bands or artists can "drop a CD"..as if anyone cares about it. It's become a joke.



It does offer something of value, freedom. Freedom is sometimes difficult, but it is always of value.

The recording industry collapsed under its own weight, just like the auto industry. It became too big and could not move fast enough when things changed (The internet). So what did they do? They did what all oversized businesses do then they are in trouble, they turned to the Government to protect them. They asked for laws to prevent things like Napster, instead of finding a way to work with it. In the end they lost, and now things are going through a period of adjustment, this is the natural order of things. Where does it go? I don't know, but it will be a wild and exciting ride. Someday after this is all over and things become orderly again, people will look back at now and say what a great time it was!


8)

_________________
You can't have too many guitars!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:31 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:11 am
Posts: 299
omar59 wrote:
dunedindragon wrote:
The freedom of the internet and the availability of low cost (i.e. low quality) recording capability has provided many advantages to starting artists, but it doesn't come with anything of value. Even the most talentless bands or artists can "drop a CD"..as if anyone cares about it. It's become a joke.



It does offer something of value, freedom. Freedom is sometimes difficult, but it is always of value.

The recording industry collapsed under its own weight, just like the auto industry. It became too big and could not move fast enough when things changed (The internet). So what did they do? They did what all oversized businesses do then they are in trouble, they turned to the Government to protect them. They asked for laws to prevent things like Napster, instead of finding a way to work with it. In the end they lost, and now things are going through a period of adjustment, this is the natural order of things. Where does it go? I don't know, but it will be a wild and exciting ride. Someday after this is all over and things become orderly again, people will look back at now and say what a great time it was!


8)


I can agree with some of what you say. Certainly the record companies in many ways became too large and unwieldy to be able to react effectively to new movements in music. But anarchy can be considered to be the ultimate freedom, and that's not good either. And you're right, freedom often comes with a price and if the price of this freedom is that you're on your own with no marketing, promotion, or rights protection knowing that the only real income you're likely to ever receive is mostly through relentless touring 12 months out of the year and merch sales, then more power to you. But I personally think we lost a lot in order to gain the "creative freedom" you speak of. It certainly leveled the playing field at the cost of no effective "filtering" element to help raise the truly talented and capable above the fray of the masses.

However I think you'd be wrong to say the record companies were ALWAYS the enemy of creative freedom. If it weren't for the record companies taking broad chances with new musical ideas I'm not sure you would have ever seen bands as diverse as Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zep, Electric Light Orchestra, Black Sabbath, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, ZZ Top, or even the Eagles rise out of the masses to be noticed..all within a single decade more or less. It was truly an era of magical creative freedom, but with distribution and rights management. Some of it was due to foresightedness on the part of record companies and promoters, a lot of it was due to artists honing their craft and paying their dues in order to be ready for that big day when they were "signed" and being signed actually meant something.

Again, I'm not saying the talent isn't out there. It certainly is. But the freedom of the environment you talk about and the lack of opportunities to develop those skills as professional, disciplined musicians and songwriters means there's precious few needles to be found amongst the mountains of hay out there.

_________________
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Gibson 335
Gretsch G5420T
Fender American Strat
Martin GPCPA1 Plus Grand Performer
Fender Mustang IV v.2


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:07 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
dunedindragon wrote:
Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zep, Electric Light Orchestra, Black Sabbath, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, ZZ Top, or even the Eagles

[This not to be taken too seriously, but:]
How many of those bands/performers were unhappy (up to lawsuit level...) with their record companies...
"By the way, which one's Pink?"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: