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Post subject: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:43 am
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Having been a musician for the better part of 5 decades I can't help but make some observations about what has been transpiring in the music environment over the last few years, and I can't help but say it really concerns me. I'm wondering if I'm just needlessly concerned and what other people's take on what's been happening and where things are going.

Obviously there have been some pretty big changes. We all know about the horrific state of what bands get paid in most areas, if they get paid at all. Additionally record companies are mere shadows of what they used to be in terms of distribution and artist management/production. Add to that the enormous fragmentation of styles in the rock/pop arena reducing the potential audience for any one style and it makes me wonder where this all ends up in the next few years. It's pretty clear to me at this point that the opportunity for any one artist or band to be a galvanizing, long-enduring, and relatively universal force in rock/pop music such as Elvis, or The Beatles, or The Stones is pretty much dead. Does this trend continue on until there are smaller and smaller markets for any one style? Clearly music publishing rights are no longer going to mean much in terms of income, nor are album sales. So it pretty much comes down to live performance. But as the market fragments it seems to me that the potential audience isn't going to be enough to sustain a livable income for touring bands.

What's your take? Where does this all end up?

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:00 am
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For the most part, "pop" music for the last several years has been less about music, and more about gimmicks, marketing, and BS. "Artists" aren't recognized for their talent- they are recognized for their sex videos, for who they are dating, for their outrageous outfits, and other similar garbage.

We're seeing less musicianship in exchange for samples edited from actual musicians, auto-tuned voices, and sound effects. Instead of songs, and by songs, I mean music & lyrics that have a recognizable melody that you can hum to someone, along with words that mean something, we get sound effects, drum machine beats, and some idiot groaning "yeah, uh" over it and then saying something completely anti-social.

Sure, there are a few new bands out there with guys that can really play, and a few people that can actually sing, but really- let's get real. Go look at the charts for hit songs over the last few decades, and you'll see what I mean. Now, it's all disposable garbage that nobody will care about in a few years. Nobody will ever want to hear whatever junk Beyonce, or Lady Gaga, or Miley Cyrus did in 10 years. People still want to hear songs Elton John did in 1974. And not just old farts, but even young people. People will cover great songs- nobody will cover ANY of this current crap.

Also, it's a sad state of affairs when people think that the horrible "singers" featured on shows like American idol, or those other similar shows are any good. Sorry, but they are horrible. People actually thought Clay aiken could sing? Or the fat black guy? Or the !@$ guy that butchered the Queen song? Most of the winners were awful, and the runners up were mostly no bargain either. The show was really about showing the truly awful, delusional people that were so bad it had to be a put on, like that Chinese guy that did the Ricky Martin song that became a sensation for 15 minutes.

Bottom line, music today isn't as good as it was in the 70's, 80's, or even 90s. With few exceptions maybe, but "pop" is absolute garbage.


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:02 am
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On the positive side, the internet, soundcloud, youtube etc. give every player/band the opportunity to reach listeners globally. Used to be just the people in the sock hop...

And let's face it: all bands didn't get paid, all pop music wasn't good, all stars weren't skilled in the good old days when everything was better :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:00 am
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jmattis wrote:
On the positive side, the internet, soundcloud, youtube etc. give every player/band the opportunity to reach listeners globally. Used to be just the people in the sock hop...

And let's face it: all bands didn't get paid, all pop music wasn't good, all stars weren't skilled in the good old days when everything was better :mrgreen:


+1

Not to mention the major recording corporations' imposed restrictions to many several countries due to copyright infringement claims forcing Google to block, mute or delete many YouTube videos.

The greedy music industry uses piracy fight as an excuse to justify those censorship policies.


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:33 am
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You only see a lot more crap because a lot more gets out due to the internet.

There's a ton of great music out there, you're just mad because you're not finding what you like in the mainstream.

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:52 am
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The great thing about the music industry today is that you don't have to wait for a major recording corp. to sign you to put out great music. There are so many independent labels and artist that are capable of executing and delivering it on their own. I think back to all the great bands of all time and wonder how many great bands didn't make it because all these major labels had all their eggs in one basket.

As far as making a living out of it. It's a career just like any other. The harder you work at, the better you are at it and the more effort you put into it then you stand a better chance of making a decent living out of it. But best of all, the major corporations no longer dictate who I spend my money supporting. I do, and you gotta love that.

I do agree that most music being put out today draws it influences from the bands of yesteryear and not the bands of yesterday. So in a sense, rock and roll, r&b, soul, swing, etc will live on forever.

Just my 2c.

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:29 am
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Southpaw1969 wrote:
... people think that the horrible "singers" featured on shows like American idol, or those other similar shows are any good. Sorry, but they are horrible. People actually thought Clay aiken could sing? Or the fat black guy? ...

I just need to dial this in a bit. The good singers on American Idol are EXCELLENT singers. HOWEVER, what they are not are artists with any sense of real musical vision or ability to write music (wth few exceptions). This is what separates the wheat from the chaff -- for example, the reason we all know Jimmy Page's name is because of his artistry. Jimmy Page had a powerful musical vision for the music he wanted to create, with the ability to write and (of course) play it. There are lots of people who can "play" and "sing", but there are few artists. That's the difference.

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:33 am
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Buxom wrote:
You only see a lot more crap because a lot more gets out due to the internet.

There's a ton of great music out there, you're just mad because you're not finding what you like in the mainstream.


I tend to agree. I think the state of the music business for artists/bands that 18 year olds want to hear and see is not as bad as we think it is.
For the older crowd, it's dying fast. When's the last time you bought a Paul McCartney CD? He keeps releasing them. I consider myself a fan, but I don't buy them. So, really if we want to know why it's dying we should look in the mirror rather than blame the internet.

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:58 pm
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SKcoppertele wrote:
I dont care for dub step, at all. But I do think it would be cool to COMBINE it with rock and see what happened. I'll be willing to bet it would be popular.


From the top of my head;





I was thinking recently about how a lot of people tend to only like music from their own youth. It strikes me as bizarre, no-one would say they don't watch movies or read books which were released after they turned twenty-five, but when it comes to music its almost the norm.

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:10 pm
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Today's Music scene or industry I should say, is a joke IMO. I think shows like American Idol are insulting to true musicians because they're only looking for and I quote " Pop Stars ", meaning, clueless idiots who have good looks, some degree of talent, and who are willing to suck up and do whatever it takes just so they can be featured in People Magazine. I stopped watching Idol several years ago when they wouldn't let any of the singers perform with guitars anymore. I remember seeing a couple on there who actually could play and had talent but because they wouldn't kiss Simon Cowell's $@!, they never got to that next level which is a crying shame. Sure there are some new acts out there that are actually good and stand out , but not too many IMO. The Independent scene is the way to go today because at least you 'll be judged on your talent and not on your appearance.


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:11 pm
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jeffo46 wrote:
... I stopped watching Idol several years ago when they wouldn't let any of the singers perform with guitars anymore ...

That was what made last season particularly good was that so many of them played guitar or keyboards. Last season had probably the most guitar playing of any. Just FYI, I guess ...

jeffo46 wrote:
Sure there are some new acts out there that are actually good and stand out , but not too many IMO.

Totally agree. I have my ear out always listening for something that moves me. Occasionally there is a glimmer here or there of some good stuff, but no one particular that I can point to and say, "Wow, these guys are great!" There was so much amazing music that came out of the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even the 90s. Then after that, the music seem to just die ... or maybe I finally got old. LOL

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:35 am
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socal323 wrote:
The great thing about the music industry today is that you don't have to wait for a major recording corp. to sign you to put out great music. There are so many independent labels and artist that are capable of executing and delivering it on their own. I think back to all the great bands of all time and wonder how many great bands didn't make it because all these major labels had all their eggs in one basket..


I think this is actually a part of the problem. We may not have liked the way the major labels controlled which bands were heard, but they provided a useful filter which forced artists to strive harder to differentiate themselves with their own sound..and a sound that was likely to sell.

More importantly, being signed actually MEANT something unlike it does today. Sure, it's easier to get signed now, but does that mean the record company is going to INVEST in you? It certainly did back then. Are they going to help manage you? Promote you? Provide artistic support with a quality Producer? Provide distribution and publication rights management?

The freedom of the internet and the availability of low cost (i.e. low quality) recording capability has provided many advantages to starting artists, but it doesn't come with anything of value. Even the most talentless bands or artists can "drop a CD"..as if anyone cares about it. It's become a joke.

I don't think there's less raw talent around nowdays than there was in the past, but I do think there's less help available to develop that talent and provide the "fit and finish" that makes the artist a force to be reckoned with and that will grow and endure. The biggest problem that we now have is everyone is on their own. It's the blind leading the blind. Bottom line, the music business now has no viable business model for making money.

Back to my original question, where does this go? Well if we look at the rest of the internet and the business models that have been successful it comes down to corporate sponsorship. It sounds daffy at first, but if you think about it maybe not. Corporations are always seeking ways to reach their target markets. That's why it works in NASCAR. Why not in music and promotion? Where else are artists going to come up with the money necessary to differentiate themselves in an over-glutted marketplace?

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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am
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where I work, they play music overhead. for the last 6 months we have heard taylor swift, adele, pink, and more. all recent stuff.

our manager switched to the 70's channel last week. everybody's mood picked up, and customers are even happy. even the young workers like it more.


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:43 am
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I'm sure the OP post could also have been written in the 1950s, and probably will be again 50 years from now.

For all the hand wringing and negativity about the talent shows, they prove one thing; there's plenty of people out there that can sing, some can even write songs. There always have been. Just goes to show, even with a nationwide network to force feed it to people, talent is overrated. It's everywhere and is no guarantee of succeeding.


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Post subject: Re: The Future of Rock/Pop Music
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:06 am
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I agree with so many comments on this topic.

True story: I have a friend who is also a Freemason like myself, and he is (now) a recently retired recording studio assistant from Nashville. No names, no nothing, as I want to keep his privacy intact. But I can tell you - straight up, the guy is legit. He was THERE a number of years ago with Johnny Cash and Rick Rubin for the "American Recordings" sessions in Nashville. He remembers Don Henley coming in to sing backup vocals on a track. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers where there, etc...etc... Lots of big names where there to lend a hand.

I remember him telling me that he got tired of the so called "new artists" trying to make it big and they'd come into the studio looking like a model or whatever and have absolutely ZERO God given talent. They couldn't play an instrument to save their life. They couldn't sing. They had no concept of music, key, time signature, chord progression, etc... but yet they paid the $$$ for the studio time, shook their booty around, and made a record. He told me everything was either MIDI sequenced or backing track sampled, and "Auto Tune" was constantly enabled. The upcoming recording artist just "sang" on top of all the backing tracks.

Long story short. My friend basically just went, "Pffffffffttttt..." and walked away from it all. He got so disgusted with today's record industry, he got out of Nashville, moved his home studio up here to Richmond, VA and has retired. He told me that eventually, he wants to rebuild a home studio and try to start over, but do it his way, with real instruments. But he said it wouldn't conform to today's mainstream studios.

Wow....


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