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Post subject: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:31 pm
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There have been a great many discussions about tone woods on solid body electric guitars over the years. There's a fresh one going on right now in the Strat section. I have been on both sides of the fence at different times. A couple of years ago I took the time and worked through all of the concepts in my own mind and have arrived at what I feel is the final truth of the matter. The following represents my understanding of the science of this issue. This will be a longish read but I hope you find it beneficial in the end.

Some folks insist wood selection plays a very significant role in how a guitar sounds. I believe it plays a role but a small one. Others insist only the pickups determine how a guitar sounds. That is partly true but not completely and it’s a little misleading as well. There are other variables to consider, some of them not nearly as significant as pickups and others much more significant.

The first thing to identify here is that the rules for acoustic guitars do not completely apply here; only some aspects apply and even then only somewhat. Wood plays a very serious role in determining the final tone of an acoustic guitar because the resonance of the wooden body, and in particular the top, is what amplifies the sound of the strings to a level loud enough to hear properly. The dimensions, shape and wood selection of the body all have an affect on final tone. Try playing your electric without plugging it into an amp and you’ll see right away why that is necessary. It makes only a barely audible sound by comparison to an acoustic guitar.

Electric guitars rely on pickups and an amplifier to make it loud and the pickups play a significant role in the overall tone. The amp plays the largest role. It is the only part of the system that actually generates the sound waves we hear so it obviously has the most affect on the final tone of a given guitarist. The amp by itself is also an elaborate system within itself and all of the various components of that system are tone variables such as circuit type, capacitor values, tube types and values on tube amps, the various chip values on S/S amps and hybrid amps, speaker diameter, cone shapes and materials, magnet size and type, etc. The pickups determine the tone of the signal that the amplifier sees at the input stage so they also play a significant role in the final tone but not as great as the amp. This is why for any given guitarist a cheap guitar played through a great amp almost always sounds worlds better than a great guitar played through a cheap amp.

The folks who argue that wood makes no difference in tone are absolutely correct in one aspect of their debate; the wood does not affect the pickups since the pickups only read the vibrations of the strings. Where I believe those folks go astray is in their assumption that tone starts with the pickups. It doesn’t. It starts with the strings. If anyone thinks strings are irrelevant to tone they should try a set of flat-wounds or if they play bass they can try some nylon strings if they need proof tone starts with strings. A significant factor in strings besides basic string construction design is touch. Some people refer to it as hands. They way we touch the strings affects the tone of the strings which is then translated to the rest of the system thereby affecting final tone. That is why you will sound different from me playing the same guitar.

This is where wood comes into play. An amplified Dobro sounds different from an amplified wooden acoustic largely due to materials used in the construction of the guitar. This is because the materials affect the vibrational characteristics of the strings. Likewise, wood selection in a sold body guitar affects the strings but it does so primarily in the way it dampens the strings at various frequencies. For an example of this do a Google search for a video of a cinderblock guitar. In that video a normal pickup is used with a Fender Stratocaster neck, standard electric guitar strings and a guitar amplifier. The sound is decidedly different from that of a typical Strat. This is due to something called resonant frequency. Different materials resonate differently and they affect the resonance of the strings. In that cinderblock video you will notice a red bandana attached to the bridge. They do not mention the bandana at all in the video because they are trying to sell a pickup but the reason they put it there is to act as a damper because without it the guitar would sound even weirder than it already does.

Alder has a different resonant frequency than Ash. The vibrating section of the strings is terminated at both ends by the nut and the bridge. The nut and bridge are both mounted to the guitar wood. The angle of the strings across the nut and bridge exerts pressure on them, forcing them to come into a stronger connection to the wood. They are still not one single mass but they are firmly connected and they will interact on a vibrational level. The wood becomes part of the resonance system and since various pieces of wood have different resonant frequencies they will dampen the strings at different frequencies. This is a damping action. The wood does not add tone or vibrational energy to the strings; it takes away from the vibration of the strings. It damps them. To see how two masses like the bridge and the body or the neck and the nut firmly touching each other can affect tone try playing your electric guitar unplugged and then press the headstock firmly onto the top of your coffee table. In that instance you are increasing the mass and surface area of the vibrating system by a substantial amount so you may possibly notice a slight amplification of volume acting somewhat like the top of an acoustic guitar.

The mass, density, hardness, and stiffness of the wood will all affect how the wood dampens the strings. The neck joint will also come into play as it alters the mass of the wood by either combining the two masses, neck and body, into one on a set neck or separating them into two semi connected masses on a bolt neck. That neck joint will therefore have an affect on how the wood dampens the strings. Go back to the cinderblock video and notice the monstrous sustain it has. That guitar has a standard Strat bolt on neck so the neck connection is not the reason it sounds different or has more sustain. Imagine how much more sustain it would have if the neck and body were both concrete. On an all-wood guitar the neck joint does play a role. Older players who remember the days when humbuckers were not yet commonly found on Fenders will recall that a mod like putting a Gibson PAF pickup into a Strat didn’t result in a Strat that sounded exactly like a Les Paul. They still don’t to this day. That tone difference is due to wood selection, scale length, neck joint, the carved top and any other variables that might affect the the vibration of the strings. There are other cues we can pick up on to see that the overall guitar design plays a role in tone. Thinline Teles for example or any other body lightening scheme like closed chambered bodies such as those offered by Warmoth where there is a set of honeycomb shaped hollow chambers inside the body wood. They sound different. There’s no mistaking it. Then there are the semi-hollow bodies like the Gibson 335. With the same pups, amp and guitarist that guitar sounds different than a Les Paul. The way a guitar is made and the materials used in its construction all have an affect on final tone.

The important thing to remember here is that we are talking about very subtle differences when it comes to wood. Sometimes the difference is so subtle that some players can’t even hear it at all. This is especially true when we are talking about wood types. It’s still wood. It’s not nearly as significant as the difference between wood and concrete or wood and steel. It’s gong to be subtle because it is still essentially the same kind of material. There is a very droll 40-minute video done by an Englishman named Duncan in which he attempts to demonstrate how wood makes zero difference in tone. He tried different guitar bodies with the same neck, pickups (a pre-loaded pick-guard) and amp. He even used the same set of strings. He noticed no difference. I find his test questionable and open to attack because by his own admission (near the end of the video) he was very inconsistent with his hands. Hands affect strings and tone starts with strings.

I think I have covered all the bases here. I don’t think I have forgotten any of the variables. Please remember this is my understanding of the science. There may be more to it I have not yet learned but I think if there is it would prove to be even less significant. You are certainly free to disagree. Like Martian loves to say, your mileage may vary.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:21 pm
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You make a strong case.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:23 pm
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Very interesting, thank you, I agree with your reasoning!

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:57 pm
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I guess I should have added one thing.

The test of the unamplified guitar and the coffee table shows that when unplugged there is a very noticeable difference but when the guitar is plugged into an amp the difference is much more subtle. You can still hear it if you listen carefully but I think it proves my point that wood mass and density play a role in tone but it's a small one.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:10 am
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Also often overlooked is how the NECK and fretboard material impacts tone. I think as much of your tone comes from there in an electric bass as from the body wood.


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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:17 am
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That could very well be, Dave. For one thing, the fretboard wood can be in direct contact with the dead end of the vibrating string under your finger. It is also going to interact with the neck wood. Frets will also impact tone ever so slightly. Size (mass) and material stiffness and hardness.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:59 am
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... Good read. I would like to see some evidence on guitars like the Parker fly and the yamaha 'skeleton' guitar (I don't know what it's really called) compared to a traditional electric like a Telecaster and a Les Paul, comparing on whether mass makes a positive difference to amplified tone or not, or whether it doesn't make much difference at all.



Now shall we tackle the MIA vs. MIM debate now... :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:46 am
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There will never be an end to this discussion...

A few notes:

Things aren't black and white (as in players who believe in tonewood influence only vs players who believe in pickup tone only).

Variations inside the same wood species are big. In the Mike Eldred video he taps two maple neck blanks, one says ping and the other pong. So, a distinctive tone belonging to any certain wood species is very debatable.
(Easy test: can you, in a blind test, accurately spot even a maple fretboard Strat from a rosewood one? Or a bit harder: can you tell the body wood; ash/alder/basswood/poplar/mahogany by ear only..?)

The player as part of the equasion. Any great player sounds like him/herself on different guitars. For the rest of us: pick just beside the bridge, do you get a bright "ashlike" sound, pick above the 20th fret, are you playing mahogany..?

And to MIM/MIJ/MIA, Squier/Fender etc. debates: different daughters, same mother. 8)


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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:05 am
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I guess this is just a more complete way of saying what I always say to people that get into the "tone wood" or other trivial nonsense technical discussions. The wood used in your electric guitar won't make you a better guitar player. Only practice will do that.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:21 am
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That is somewhat beside the point - and anyway, it's a statement that kills conversation :wink:

First of all, the effect of a player's state of mind is a very significant factor on almost every skill level ("I feel the mojo, I play better").
And second, these "trivial" differences are significant in the highest skill levels, too - e.g. Clapton's blocked tremolo instead of a hardtail...


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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:03 am
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Nice read and I agree with everything you said :) I think, in a truly blind test, most of us couldn't spot the difference. Heck, there are too many variables and even the spot where your pick/fingers touch the string (picking hand) makes a huge difference. So on a guitar with a slightly, really slightly different tone due to a different wood, one would just compensate by picking a couple mm to the left or to the right, subconsciously, to get the tone one wants.

Exactly due to the reasons you've mentioned, I spent a lot more time thinking about which strings go well with a specific guitar instead of thinking how a different wood would sound on that setting. Heck, I'm getting a DIY kit in a couple days, it's a basswood and bolt-on neck SG. I'm changing a lot of the stuff (pickups will have the biggest impact on the tone) and really making it into a guitar I'll be able to record with. Despite some bashing basswood. Then again, some pro players use basswood. And, of course, there are different quality levels of each wood, it depends a lot how it's been dried, etc., but on stage, with a band playing with you.. No one can spot the difference, I am sure of it. While when it comes to the studio, there are so many tools available to shape the tone that again, no one will hear a difference. Heck, you might just compensate by changing the amp's EQ buttons and you'll already get there in terms of tonal range.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:24 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
The folks who argue that wood makes no difference in tone are absolutely correct in one aspect of their debate; the wood does not affect the pickups since the pickups only read the vibrations of the strings.

Are you claiming that
(a) pickups don't vibrate, or
(b) pickups use their own laws of physics where moving the string produces current, but moving the pickup does not?


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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:31 am
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Very spot on, and of course Dave is correct with the neck comment as well. It all goes into making up how a guitar or bass sounds. Anyone who has ever built or swapped parts on a Fender should know this to be true. You can swap necks from maple to rosewood and the voice of your instrument will certainly change. Or honestly even different spec'd necks (thickness, ect) will change the tonal characteristics a bit. Ash body, and alder? DEFINITELY make a difference. Of course, strings. It all goes into how much of what frequencies the pick up hears, and then passes on.

The fact that there are people who argue that what an instrument is made of surprises me. I mean. I guess if you play music with a lot of distortion it will make vastly less difference because you are corrupting the tonal integrity of the sound the pick ups are sending. However, picking an AVS 57 P bass and an AVS 63 P bass off the wall and plucking them acoustically will certainly tell you it matters. Just as doing the same with different vintage Tele's and Strats.

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:22 am
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Awesome observations and detail in your analysis BMW-KTM 8)
In the end... what it all seems to come down to...
EVERYTHING on the guitar... plays a role in it's overall sonic impression.
And yeah... the wood is part of that equation.
Thanks for posting!

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Post subject: Re: Hopefully the end of the tone wood debate
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:19 am
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BMW-KTM Nice thought out tutorial, thanks for posting
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